Introduction

Al 0:02

But then God worked it out incredible. After seven years, we had a full developed church. I had trained a second pilot, uh, and we made a visit to the Amazon for business, and God just broke my heart. And so that's what God used to transport me up to another area.

Mark 0:23

Welcome to Kingdom Without Borders, where we share stories of God's work among the nations. Today, we're traveling to Brazil through the story of two people who have spent more than four decades faithfully following wherever God led. Al and Kim Yoder are no strangers to missions. Both are raised as missionary kids, and together they've invested more than 43 years serving in Brazil. From pioneering ministry and church planting to training pastors and biblical counselors through true seminaries, they've devoted their lives to strengthening Christ's church and equipping others to carry the gospel forward. But this conversation isn't just about the places they've served or the ministries they've led. It's about the God who has remained faithful through every challenge, every answered prayer, and every unexpected turn along the journey. So settle in as we hear the story of Alan Kim Yoder and discover what a lifetime of faithful obedience has taught them about God's kingdom. Here's my conversation with Alan Kim. 43 years is a very long time. For 43 years you've been learning another culture, watching people come to Christ, uh talking of victories and disappointments, and seeing God prove himself faithful. When you hear that number 43 years, what is the very first memory that comes to your mind?

Al 1:44

Uh actually I was a lot older because I was five years older than Kim, and the honest truth was I have always thought, wow, what what we could have done if we had gone down when I was the normal age back in that time. I don't know, Kim, if Kim, you f if you have another thought.

Kim 2:04

I th

Meet The Yoders And 43 Years

Kim 2:05

I rejoice. I'm glad that we got to spend our life that way. I wish we could have another one. Um and uh it just makes me happy that we were able to do that.

Al 2:17

And I'd probably add, I have a picture. I don't think my wife is extremely happy with it, but it's a picture of when we had to leave the Amazon. And man, I tell you, there is probably nothing more painful than pulling out of of the land that we love so much and and all the work we were doing. It was a very difficult, if it wasn't God making it extremely clear that that was the only choice we had, it uh we probably wouldn't have been able to do it.

Mark 2:44

In your notes, and I know you personally, so I know this is true, you both grew up as missionary kids. Uh with that in mind, did that feel like an adventure or just normal life? Brazil. Uh or just growing up, even going back to like your childhood, like did you think of yourself as being, man, this is this is an adventure, or is it just that this is what life is like?

Al 3:08

No, in fact, um thinking over everything before I came today, uh, I was I was thinking of of the fact that you know we didn't have we had zero uh culture shock when we went to Brazil. Um and m more for Kim, because that's where she was raised. Uh it was more just exciting. And I th and I really after thinking it over quite a bit, I really think it was to uh to me at least this is life. And our our parents had us involved in everything. I was the first son, so everything my dad did, I was with him. Even when I was a little teeny tyke, um uh I would go uh places with him. He worked um he was the chief technician of the Christian radio stations down there, so when they had setups and everything, it was so much a part of life uh that going back to the field was, oh, we're going home kind of a thing, even though I was going to a totally different country.

Mark 4:06

Yeah. What are some of your earliest memories as a child growing up on the mission field? So oh, let me let me get this straight here. Were you both born while your parents were on the mission field, or did you were you born in the States and then moved to the mission field?

Al 4:22

Kind of interesting. We both ended up on our on our own mission fields when both of us were six months old. I had just been born, Kim was just born, and at six months we ended up on the field.

Mark 4:34

So you have no recollection of life outside of the mission field?

Al 4:37

I don't have no recollection of life uh a couple years ago.

Kim 4:41

No.

Al 4:42

Uh no, no, we don't.

Kim 4:43

And we learned the language as we learned English.

Mark 4:46

So you were pretty much immersed in it from the very beginning. So there really are no memories of going to the mission field. You just were there. Right. Gotcha. Um did either one of you ever secretly hope that God would call you somewhere else besides missions.

Al 5:05

And again, I'm I'm only giving you my opinion. Uh, if you want truth, ask my wife questions. But seriously, I from a very early age knew that I was wanted to be a missionary. I mean, it was just natural. It's it's it's kind of like I I want to stay in the family business. Uh but it was more than that. Um my parents, my father could have been very rich. His father was a doctor in Washington, and when he came out of the war, uh, his father was gonna do everything he could to help him be rich the rest of his life, either a doctor or a lawyer or something like that. And he gave all of that up to take a $200 a month job as a missionary. His passion and his love for missions was just enormous. And all that eked into my vi into my pores. Um uh I so badly wanted to serve, and Ruthie, the the my sister that that passed away that brought my parents home off the field. Um, when she brought them off the field, I was only 12, 13 years old. And my thoughts were, I can't wait to take up and do what my dad was doing all my life, my dad and mom were doing all their life. So for in my case, uh, you know, there's no mystical uh voice coming out of the wall or anything like that. I just thought my parents were missionaries, they were passionate about it, they passed that passion to me, and I I was headed that direction. It was just a natural fit. Very natural fit.

Mark 6:40

Now, just so people know that are listening, can you explain a little bit about Ruthie so that way they understand when you say she caused your parents to leave the mission field?

Al 6:48

Yeah, my sister had a brain disease um uh that was disintegrating her brain. I would say the name, but it has more than five syllables, and that's beyond my ability. Uh but

Ruthie and First Date

Al 7:00

there were only seven humans alive at that time on record that had the same disease. Uh she lost her sight at five years old, and then she lost her coordination, and uh but she loved the Lord so much that if you said Jesus, her eyes would just twinkle, and I mean literally twinkle. And Ruthie and I were very close. She was one year older than me. I helped her a lot with with you know getting around and things like that. And uh when when we came home, she was very sick. They said she would never live past 13, and she died at 19. Okay. Uh I was at college, I came home. Uh but they being they came home and on a missionary salary, and in those days there wasn't insurance. My dad was working 16 hours a day just to support the hospital costs and everything. So it was it was really hard for him, but it was what God easily used uh to steer me in that direction. There was no other direction. In fact, I'm a missionary pilot, well, as as my father-in-law calls it, aviation church planning. Uh but um the uh uh I wanted to fly ever since I was a little tiny type, but I always kept putting that aside, saying, you know, my love for flying can't take over missions. And so uh until my senior year of college, I was always putting aviation aside and telling me it was going to be a distraction. And then who showed up at my Bible college my senior year? My wife's dad. And he brought her to show her off. No, I'm I'm kidding. Um, so he used her as bait to get me into the mission, and uh, that's when I really saw how airplanes could be used in church planning and in remote uh things. So I got off the question, sorry about that. But but Ruthie was was the main target, and I was also not real serious as a youngster, and the day I had to stand in front of her casket uh as a freshman in college, it it turned my life around. Gotcha. I said, Man, she's been in bed for the last two years, and she's won more people to the Lord than I did my first term, just by her sparky attitude and her love for the Lord. So she was a big key in our life. Gotcha.

Mark 9:15

Um, Kim, do you ever s recall a time where you secretly hoped that w it wasn't gonna be missions for you?

Kim 9:22

No, I was always interested in missions. I first hand saw the need, especially in the Amazon, and um and it was in high school, tenth grade, the at a missions conference, that I decided definitely I wanted to be a missionary and headed that way after that.

Mark 9:44

Did that cause you to I'm thinking uh you know, it's kind of different when a a young lady surrenders to the mission field versus a guy in the sense that um if you are called to the mission field and the Lord never brings you a husband, that's it that's quite an adventure, right? Uh versus going as a married couple. Did that the reality that as a tenth grader you knew God was calling you to the mission field, did that change or um affect your future dating opportunities?

Kim 10:19

Uh definitely, in the sense that, well, I I was willing to go as a single missionary. Okay. I actually I never even thought about it. I just knew I was going. Right. And um, if God brought along somebody uh that was interested in missions, and I knew that about Al when we started dating. Sure. Um, in fact, we were already good friends before we ever started dating. Uh so whatever God brought my way was fine.

Mark 10:51

Well, that kind of transitions into the next question that I have, and that is um, could you guys share for us your first date and who said I love you first? Uh can you turn off her headphones?

Kim 11:05

There are two versions to the story. Sounds good. But else is more interesting.

Al 11:10

My story of the truth. Uh uh first, I would like to say that my wife uh is kind of a shy woman, and uh so she doesn't like my stories. Uh but um she had a goal of I will only date somebody if they're going into full-time ministry, which really did cut quite a bit down the field of play. Uh I was already out of college and in flight school. I'm five years older than she is. Uh flight school, by God's grace, was at the same college that she was going to Bible college, so I met her. We became great friends in our little missionary kid click. Now, real quick, this is after her dad had come and spoke. Right. He spoke at BBC in Pennsylvania where I was a student, got my bachelor's degree. Then I went to Piedmont in North Carolina to get aviation training, and she was there.

Kim 12:04

I was a senior. And so I went with him my senior year in the house. Yes.

Al 12:10

Okay.

Kim 12:10

And I was visiting colleges. Okay.

Al 12:12

So it's like a two-for-one trip with your dad. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Exactly. Uh, and uh so we met then, uh, and as she said, and this is again God's working, we became super close friends. She and I, and another guy that was from Peru. Uh, and she knew all her life down there in the jungle, and none of us were dating each other. So that was a uh a very healthy thing. Uh, but as the story goes, um at BBC, when I'm I'm looking over for a smile, at BBC when she when she came, my roommate happened to be an MK from Peru, another one, and he says, You've got to meet this Kimmy Skeltima. Uh uh da-da-da-da-da-da. And so um I walked up into the student center where we were having a snack, and there's Kim. And my only thoughts, she had real long hair, my only thoughts were, Wow, if she was only older, my goodness. So I did what every very shy young man would do, and I walked up to her and I asked her out on a date, and she laughed at me. Literally, and she'll tell you that part's true. It was all done in fun, obviously. Lo and behold, the next year we went to Piedmont and we met her. Uh, and after the very first year, she uh I um she was dating she was dating at that time a Brazilian MK, uh, and he would happen to be my roommate. So at the end of the summer, he comes up to me and ended up being my best man, by the way, at my wedding. At the end of the summer, he came up and said, Hey, why don't you take out Kim? And I said, She's your girlfriend. And he says, No, no, no, we're not dating anymore. I said, See you later. And I went over to the dorm and asked her out. So, our first date, I took her out bowling, and I am not cutting my wife up. I would never do that ever, ever. But she will tell you she is not a bowler. And it was a gutter here and it was a gutter there. But you don't challenge a skeletum a woman. I said, Hey Kim, I bet you can't get a strike. Uh I bet you a Cokey can't get a strike. Oh, I shouldn't say I was betting in college, huh? And she got a strike. I said, I bet you coke, I bet you pizza, uh, you can't get another one, and she got another one. And by the end of the night, she won. Uh, and uh, she got uh but I got a whole bunch of dates set up for me after that, and that's where our our uh dating life went. Both of us at that time, she was very mature uh for a college freshman, very, very mature. Uh I was coming into maturity at that time. We both had the exact same goals. So the dating from the beginning started to be pretty serious. We were saying, why would we date if we're not considering possible marriage? Sure. And uh and that's the way it went.

The Call

Al 15:10

Mark 16:39

Kim 16:47

Mark 16:52

Um, so let's kind of fast forward a little bit. So you're you've dated, uh you've gotten married, um, you're now uh I'm how long did it take you guys to raise support to get to Brazil?

Al 17:05

That's God's stamp of approval. I mean, it is a and and granted, we both had parents that were from the mission field context. But we prayed for uh a fast deputation. We worked very hard at it. We in one year and a half had full support plus all the money we needed to buy the first airplane. Oh wow. In fact, it went so fast it caught Brazilian missionaries by surprise. They they had it timed when they were gonna ask us to apply for visas, and we had how long was it we had to stay?

Kim 17:37

Now we waited six months.

Al 17:39

Six months after that to get nine months to get clearance for the visas to be able to go to Brazil with full support. So it was a year.

Kim 17:48

So we revisited all our supporting churches in those nine months.

Mark 17:52

Gotcha. So when you went to back to the field, um, I know Al your parents were here in the States. Uh Kim, were your parents still in Brazil at the time? No. No, they were back in the States too?

Kim 18:03

Right. They were back in the States already.

Mark 18:05

Because your dad was doing the ABW aviation. Yes. Okay. Thinking back to like when you left to go to Brazil, uh, do you remember any conversation you had with your parents? Uh, my question specifically says, What did your parents say the night before you left? You may not remember that, but like what kind of sentiments were shared between your family and you as you were heading off to the mission field?

Al 18:31

Well, I I I'm only speaking first, not to be impolite, but because my wife is shy and she can give her point of view after. It my my in-laws, I don't remember them saying anything because to be honest, I couldn't have better in-laws. Uh my father-in-law was the International Aviation Director. He was also rep for Southeast for ABWE. And basically he was in my pocket the whole time. Uh, I couldn't have made it without him. He they were this just there. Tons of visits. We had ham radio, we were talking to each other uh every day. Uh my father, who is a very quiet man, the polar opposite of me, uh, I I think he hasn't been able to stop crying. I mean, every time he saw us, he was so overjoyed that we were going. Uh, it was just, you know, mammoth, and he would tear up an awful lot and everything else. So for them, it was a a teary bye-bye, but it wasn't extremely excited. It wasn't one of those where where the parents are, oh man, they're they're going so far away, kind of a thing. We never had that on either side.

Kim 19:38

Yeah, yes, they were very supportive. And just to mention this, um, we had a missionary colleague whose mother, every time she would be able to talk to her from the field, her mother would cry and beg her to come back to the States and think of all the bad things that could happen. And it was really tough on that missionary colleague that that would happen every time. So we're grateful for parents who supported us who were always encouraging.

Mark 20:11

So, would you say then that um how a family sends their children to the mission field affects the success or could be an uh a factor in the success of their family on the mission field?

Al 20:26

I think it depends on the couple that's going down. Like this couple, they knew they were gonna, and by the way, uh toward the end of their career, she had cancer and they still stayed on until the doctor said absolutely no more. Right. Uh well it it depends on them more than the factor, but obviously it's a whole lot easier to serve the Lord on the on a f on the mission field if you know your parents are behind you instead of knowing that they're all, you know, being uh torn up emotionally because you're so far away. Uh but then again, also a lot of missionaries go through quote unquote the culture shock because it's so different. And so being that's not even ever in a in our book, sure, um it it it uh it made it a lot smoother.

Mark 21:16

So you had a lot of factors, a lot of things that were helping you along the way. Of course, I mean, obviously, no criticism to those who go to the mission field and experience culture shock. I mean, that's normal, sure. But the fact that you've been raised in a foreign country already kind of you're already primed, I guess, in that regard. Right.

Kim 21:36

It was more of a way of life for me. It was more of a way of life than here in the States. Sure, sure. You felt more comfortable doing that at that point.

Al 21:47

Yeah, I was just gonna say that my my immense uh culture shock was the day we stepped off the airplane, knowing that we wouldn't be living there anymore. Gotcha and trying to get back into a US culture. Which had radically changed from the time when I left.

Kim 22:05

We always mention how it's been a huge learning curve coming back because everything is just so different from the Amazon. We construction, plumbing, um tapping credit cards. Bank system, how you pay bills, everything is just so very different. Right.

Al 22:26

What's an app? Right. Smartphones that we can't figure out.

Mark 22:31

Gotcha. How many years how many years behind do you think the Amazon is compared to uh I don't even want you want to say the US, but just like Western society, civilization and as a whole?

Al 22:43

Well, we had 15 years at the beginning of our stay there, where number one, um, we didn't have electricity, so obviously we had to watch TV in the dark. Oh no, that was a joke. Um we we didn't have electricity, there was no phones. Uh when they finally got cell phones down there, it was kind of like a little flip phone, but I have to be within spitting area of the antenna or it wouldn't work. Um and uh we never when we were in the Amazon, we never had smartphones. Um it it's quite a bit beyond behind, probably decades behind what we would call civilization in the States. But I'll tell you very rapidly, Kim said that was the biggest blessing in her life. No cell phone. Uh, you know, nobody we were it was just us and our people, period. Sure. And that lack of contact uh that we had.

Kim 23:39

And uh before we moved to this place where we didn't have electricity, um

Kim’s Call And Their Love Story

Kim 23:45

I would think in my mind, what's it gonna be like? Oh, it's gonna be horrible. Well, um, and then when we went through it, it wasn't. Right. Um, it's it we enjoyed it.

Mark 23:57

So the so the the not having electricity was not the first place that you were at?

Al 24:02

No. No, no, no, no. That was about that was one, two, three, that was the third church plant. No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the third big church plant.

Mark 24:11

Yes. Um, can you can you kind of recall what the experience was like with the so you're you have raised support, you've you've gotten married, I should say, first, you've raised support, your family sent you off, you're now arriving in Brazil. What was that first week like as you're going to Brazil for as missionaries? You know, now you're you're not you're not with your parents anymore, you're you know, you're your own person. What was that like?

Al 24:41

Yeah, um, by the way, we kept up tradition. Our first daughter went down there with six months of age, too. We just had to that's why we were timing it that way. Gotcha. When we first got to Brazil, wasn't then, and that's another thing. Our parents trusted us so much they did not know me well. Uh, just kidding. Uh Kim and I actually went to Brazil for a six-week uh apprenticeship program as an engaged couple. Okay. And the missionaries decided since Kim spoke Portuguese, they were gonna work us out, and we were traveling all over a state the size of Texas doing VBS, preaching, teaching, with a young single male Brazilian pastor and two young single Brazilian girls, and Kim and I, no missionaries. And again, you're like evangelists basically that summer. Okay. Got to see a lot of people saved. It was it was just fabulous time together, and and what a way to spend an engagement. Did that did that affect your preparation, you think, for going to Brazil? Mostly mine, because here I was, I thought I was prepared.

Kim 25:52

It the place that we went was where we went back to, which was not the MS. For the first seven years.

Al 26:00

Okay. But what I figured out was my mentality was, oh, I speak Spanish fluently. It's gonna be real easy. Yeah. Uh funny, funny. People that speak Portuguese can understand Spanish, but I didn't understand a word. Uh in fact, that does remind me of a quick funny story if if you don't cut me out. No. Um Kim was my interpreter. Uh, and I had to do my sermons in English, and she interpreted it to Portuguese, and once I said something, and then she was going, da-da-da-da-da-da, because there's some things that just you know, you've been on a foreign field uh that don't translate. So she was going on da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I turned to her and said, Um that I didn't say that much, and she says, I was correcting your doctrine. That was her first try at uh dad joke. That's fine.

Mark 26:49

But no, uh I forgot where I was going with that one. You're talking about how I was preparing you, how you felt that summer or that six weeks apprenticeship or whatever it was that you were it did because I was a little nervous.

Al 27:01

I didn't know what Brazilians were like, and by the way, they are the most friendly people in in South America, and it really gave me a deep love. Uh, especially working with that single Brazilian pastor. He he just conquered my heart. Uh and working with them, it gave me a deep love for the culture and the people during that time.

Mark 27:21

So you're so you're traveling doing this uh basically summer, I'm assuming summertime, yeah. Summer time, summer six weeks, summer mission program, um, as like uh uh interns in preparation for going back as missionaries, and then you said when you went back, you went back to that same very same location. So then when you went back to Brazil, you didn't feel uh like a fish out of water per se.

Al 27:47

It was the most exciting day of our life.

Mark 27:49

Now, this is different though from where you grew up in Brazil.

Kim 27:52

It's very different, very different. Climate's different, everything. And the missionary, the the missionary who'd been there the longest in that state, um, wanted an aviation program. Okay. So we saw the need for aviation there also.

Al 28:09

And I'll give you one more thing to the credit of my incredible wife. She it was passionately about uh uh, you know, uh in love with Amazon, Amazonas, uh, but she kept putting it aside because her thoughts were I don't want to go to the Amazon because I might be going because of my love and my history and everything else, which is why we chose, but then God worked it out incredible. After seven years, we had a full developed church. The pastor, Brazilian pastor that took over, had a Christian bookstore in town that he was making real good money for. I had trained a second pilot, uh, and we made a visit to the Amazon for business, and God just broke my heart because there were so many missionaries and they were all splitting. And so that's what God used to transport me up to another another area.

Mark 29:01

So would it be fair to say then when you went to Brazil originally, you were never planning on going to the Amazon?

Al 29:08

Right. It wasn't on our screen, no. Yeah. Our thought was we were gonna be in Bahia for the rest of our lives.

Mark 29:12

Even though it was aviation that wasn't at all correct. Okay.

Al 29:16

Well, and that's because the Amazon at that time had two or three pilots, six doctors, and everything. But by the time we got there, about a year, year or two later, it was one doctor, one hospital, and one pilot for the rest of our term. God was was preparing me for that work. It was a lot harder, uh, the work in the Amazon than what we were doing in in in Bayem.

Mark 29:39

Do you think that your ability or God God allowing you to be in Brazil for so long would have been different if you would have gone immediately to the Amazon versus no? You think so?

Kim 29:55

I think yes, I think it was good, at least well, for us to be in a more developed area of Brazil. Oh we were interior, but we had contact with with just things in general, especially for aviation. He he learned the ropes a little bit better. Um and the aviation, yes, that was a big help. And we were more connected with our colleagues. Yeah. Um that was my other question. That that was a big help.

Al 30:33

I would dare to say, second to my father-in-law, he was probably the best missionary I ever met with his effectiveness. He was incredible.

Mark 30:43

So you would say then that the relationships that you built in Bahia with other missionaries in those first few years were they formative or instrumental in helping you make it when you got to Amazon in the sense that you knew that you weren't alone even though you were alone. Does that does that make sense?

Al 31:04

Yeah. I would say the most we learned um from Dick Buck uh and his wife Mavis uh was how to really do an effective church plant. He had planted many churches around Brazil, they were all very, very strong churches. Uh and just imitating him, it was just so you know, it was kind of a different thing because he had another veteran missionary that was very good that joined him very little time before we got there. And when we got there, it was three brand new couples all at once, right out of candidate classes. So we were growing up together following these two senior missionaries. We had a very, very I think it was one of ABWE's best teams in the world. There were five missionary couples total at that point. That's right, right?

Kim 31:57

Uh maybe six. There was a more came after, but basically when we were there, five.

Mark 32:03

Okay. Yes. And it almost would you say that was a training ground? Yes. Yeah.

Kim 32:08

That you they they taught gave us principles of planning, strategizing. Um it just helped us.

Mark 32:16

Just a hands-on experience. It was, it was great. To watch them and then replicate that further. Now uh I just interesting. So you had the two veteran missionaries, the three new couples. You guys eventually ended up going to the Amazon. Do the other two new couples stay there in Bahia or did they also move to other parts of Brazil?

Al 32:34

Okay, before we the the new couples, uh when there there were I I think our count's still off, but the all of the couples stayed in the capital, which that was the first capital of Brazil, Salvador, except for two. Kim and I had always we were going to use the airplane to cover it's a Texas-sized state. Okay. We were going to use the airplane interior. Uh one the senior missionary that came last, his son, also arrived with us. Okay. And he he was a pilot, but not officially with ABWE, but he wanted interior. So we two teamed up and went interior after the very first year. Okay. So

Support Raising And Ministry In Bahia

Al 33:15

it was him and I. There were four couples. There were four? Four, new. Yeah, that's it. That's right. Like you were saying you thought maybe four and then, yeah. And so so we two stayed interior, uh, and uh the other four stayed in the Capitol to continue church planning. Okay. Uh the couple that went with me, his wife had some really serious uh problems, uh health problems. So they didn't last, I think, but two terms, but then came in uh the uh new pilot that I trained, and we worked with him for a few years and got him all trained up before we left, and he stayed interior. Okay.

Mark 33:54

When I was reading through the notes in preparation for this, I know you guys have personally told me um about this individual, but there's a name that comes up a lot in your ministry in Brazil, and that is the name Duda. Um if she was able to be with us today and talk to us, what story do you think she would tell about meeting you all and the impact you had on her life?

Al 34:23

I'm gonna defer to my wife. She's the one that led this girl to the Lord, and it's just one of the most exciting stories of our career. So, Kim, why don't you?

Kim 34:33

Well, uh she first came to Hey, why don't we do this?

Mark 34:40

Why don't you tell us where were you? Like get us to the point where you're at. Like, so you're you're you're in the Amazon at this point.

Kim 34:47

Yes, we had left by and gone to the Amazon. We had worked at re-establishing a church in Benjamin Constant. That's the town that I claimed as home my hometown. Um, I'd lived most of my years there, which weren't very many at that point because I'd been to boarding school and other my parents had filled in at other towns also. Anyway, we um worked there and Benjamin and re-established the church with leadership, it had a pastor, and then we moved downriver um to Sao Paulo de Olivensa, not to be confused with the third largest city in the world. This one was very small. Um and after we'd probably been there about six years already, um, had a good youth group going. Uh her uncle, who was maybe a year older than her, uh brought her the first time to church.

Mark 35:50

Okay. How old is Duda at this point?

Kim 35:53

She was probably about nineteen. Okay.

Mark 35:57

Probably. So she's a young lady.

Kim 35:59

About nineteen. Um and she'd never been in a church. She wasn't a faithful Catholic or anything. And um she started coming to youth group and got saved.

Al 36:12

Before before you go on, uh there's a little hitch in this story. When she came, uh she was it was kind of a surprise the way she was dressed, I will say. And she comes rolling up on the back of a motorcycle with this with her uncle, and I didn't know they were uh, and he was one of the train being trained leaders of the youth group, so I asked him, uh, who is that girl you brought to youth group? And he goes, My niece. Oh, I blushed for half an hour. Okay, go ahead.

Kim 36:46

Um, and she immediately got involved in discipleship, um, in our kids' club that's sort of like a wana clubs. Okay. Um, and uh she started taking the Bible Institute classes that we had there. In fact, she was the first graduate, official graduate. Um uh she helped start the preschool um and did a fantastic job. The school was very well recommended and known in our town. Um and then she taught a missionary story for a VBS one year. I think it was William Carey, I'm not real sure. Okay. Um and that got her interested in missions. So without us even realizing it, she started checking out missions and mission boards, and then she talked to Al about it and told us that she was interested in going to Bolivia. There was another single girl from another area of Brazil that she didn't even know that um was going to there, so she started moving in that direction. She is now um, she's been in Bolivia for a little over 10 years working with this other single missionary. They have helped establish, plant a church in one little town, and um about two years ago they moved to the capital of Bolivia where they're gonna start another church. Yes. It's the highest capital in the world, I think. Oh wow. Um, highest altitude. Sure. Um, and she got married recently, met someone who was finishing up seminary, and uh they he's joined the team, joined the mission. They're the two of them are continuing to raise some support now that he's joined, and um hoping to go back and be in La Paz.

Al 38:56

And she is the first Brazilian missionary to leave our Amazon part of the Amazon, a huge part of the Amazon, uh to go to a foreign mission field totally supported by Brazilian churches. Oh wow, I mean it's a landmark thing that's a point.

Kim 39:14

Um there has been another missionary that's come out of the Amazon, served in Portugal, uh but he was supported by American churches. She is totally supported by Brazilian church.

Mark 39:27

Brazilian churches, wow. And it's um, I would assume the majority of those churches, in some fashion, some shape, are the fruit of missionary labors.

Al 39:37

Yeah, they are, and it's a very strong, solid doctrinal uh uh Baptist mission in Brazil that's totally Brazilian and was formed by totally Brazilian, but obviously from churches and seminaries that ABWE had influence at that time.

Mark 39:53

That's really neat that to see it kind of go full circle. Fabulous it's gone from a missionary going to then training nationals, and now the nationals are running their own mission boards, sending their own people and fully supporting them at that. Yes, and she is quality.

Al 40:08

We we call it fruit producing fruit. Yeah. Uh uh their ministry is so strong.

Mark 40:14

Very good. Um, so when she I'm just curious, so when she went to Brazil, I mean when she went to um Bolivia, so she's working with another um missionary. Are they working with uh was it was it in conjunction with other national Bolivians or was it American missionaries there that they are connected with?

Al 40:34

They started it was just the two girls at the beginning, but there is a where where they are in Bolivia, it's right across the river from a big city in Brazil. Okay. And so they located at that church in the Brazil side, then they went over as missionaries. The past they have a seminary there too. They would send up this pastor that would uh actually be leading the church, but he's only up there to preach and teach and do some things like that organization and they were doing all the and all the visiting and all everything. So obviously they had to have a man in the group, and that was him.

Kim 41:11

It was uh the a group of churches, uh right. Uh what's it? Like a fellowship, that's what that uh wanted them to come and help start the work there in Bolivia. So it was Brazilian churches leading the way.

Mark 41:28

Gotcha. I wasn't um I'm not my geography is not a hundred percent. So I didn't realize that. So we're Bolivia is a border country to Brazil. Okay.

Al 41:38

And the city is Cobija, and right on the other side is Brasilena, Brasilena. Uh so there's the they're they're like almost the same city cut in the middle by a river. Yeah. Uh, but it's definitely all Bolivian.

Mark 41:51

It was a um uh it was a natural transition. I don't know if that that's where I want to use. It was a um it was a good opportunity because of the proximity of these two cultures for them to be able to integrate. And now to know that they're now gone, they're they're moving.

Kim 42:10

And there's already a pastor that came from Venezuela.

Mark 42:14

Okay. That's pastoring the church full-time now.

Al 42:17

Yeah, the one that they're going to oh, the the one they left in Colbija. And so to provide uh a leader for their group, Buddha got married. I don't think that was in a purpose, but it worked out. Right.

Mark 42:28

Right, right. It's a package deal. Um one of the things that you talked about God doing and working in tangible ways on the field was building a church and and the work involved in that. Um, can you share a little bit maybe of how you saw God work and show up in the midst of of that work? And I'm I'm I've known you guys for so many years, and I know that you you helped plant uh Berean Baptist Church in the Amazon. What other churches um were there that you that you planted along the way and and how how did God work in those situations? You know, obviously I have to share every detail, but if there's a couple highlights.

God’s Move To The Amazon

Mark 43:10

Do you mean a building? Is that what you're talking about? Well, I mean, I think both. It could be obviously the work of missions is building a church, right? But then you did specifically talk about, I believe you're talking about building.

Al 43:23

We had we had during our full career, we've planted seven churches. Two of them were were re they were churches that had died that we went back into. Uh and on the cultural side, every single one was totally different. Uh Benjamin, we could do big open air meetings. You try that in Sao Paulo, which was the next big city down the river, nobody would go. Every single city was different in how to reach. Um, and uh in the Amazon, it always took twice as long. The church in Bahia took seven years. The very last church that we planted on our way out of Brazil was in Ceará. That only took three years, four years to plant totally. And the Amazon, it's always around 14 to 15 because the people are illiterate or semi-illiterate. And so you have to get them confiding in the Bible more than the spoken word, because all they do is listen, and whoever yells the loudest gets the crowd kind of. So those were the challenges, and God did uh man, I could I could waste hours telling you stories of of miraculous salvations in all those areas. But as far as God and supplying, we actually had uh when we f went to our last church in the Amazon, the Berean Baptist, it was so strongly Roman Catholic. And when I say that over the air, uh I want everybody to know that is nothing like American Roman Catholic. Uh there's no it's shocking the difference. But it was so strongly Roman Catholic that Kim and I had to live in uh in a hotel room on weekends for two years, over two years, to be able to plant the church. Nobody would sell or buy or rent to us. Well, God did some provisions, like, for example, a little old lady that had a warehouse a half a block from a Catholic church in the main part of town, her hobby died and she wanted to move out. It was just a warehouse, nobody wanted it. That was our first church building. God's provision 100% of the money instantly from our I might add the best thing God ever did for us was our supporting church. I don't think any missionary alive had as good a church as we have had behind us. Um then God supplied teams from uh uh churches to come down and help us build. We built, we first fixed up the warehouse, the next stage was was building uh uh buying the property on the side, building a humongous building. Then there was putting out back Sunday school classes, two stories high, a sports court, everything else, all provided by God, just bang, bang, bang. We would put out a letter, and I don't think we ever waited more than a month or two to have a hundred percent support. Uh the best thing was the teams that came down from the churches. Uh, they were such a blessing to us from the Lord. So there's there's I mean, the stories could go on and on how God provided. We we raised the money for an airplane in one and a half years. I mean, that's just astounding. About twenty thousand dollars. In that time, the dollar was very strong. It would be like raising fifty, sixty thousand dollars here in the States for an airplane that that valuable. Um uh and every time, every time, oh, the our floating house, uh, that was our paradise for 15, 20 years. Uh, nobody could live in a better place than that. Um uh airplanes underneath us, shop underneath us, house above. We had to sleep under blankets at night because the the the breeze coming down the river. That was all built completely out of the most spectacular kind of wood you can imagine in one year. Uh by church support, teams coming down and helping my father-in-law who thought the whole thing up. Uh it's just it's all about God. Sure, sure.

Mark 47:34

He gets the praise for sure. Um, something that you mentioned I want to go back to. Um, I do actually have a question on here about the floating hangar house, so we'll get to that. But uh you mentioned that in the Amazon you dealt with a lot of illiteracy. Was teaching people how to read a part of your ministry uh I don't know uh what's I'm looking for, um so that they could start reading the yeah, like yeah, was that part like how did that work?

Al 48:04

That's where do the school came in?

Kim 48:06

Well, the church's school that she organized at the time in the Amazon, there had been a big push to put schools in and and require the children to attend. So it was just uh older people that um couldn't read yet.

Mark 48:23

And so just so we know for the people that are listening, when we're talking about people living in the Amazon, these people groups are different, if you will, from Brazilians and other parts of Brazil because they're primarily uh like uh native tribal groups, is that correct?

Al 48:39

No, there's a lot of Indian tribal groups, but they're just very simple people. Okay, they're the poorest people in the country, but yet they're healthy because they live off the river. You know, you throw in a fish line, you get your your your your food. Um uh but the problem was, well, we did teaching Kim was a master in discipleship. She actually wrote a uh a full discipleship program uh for her masters that's being used all over the world right now. So she and her teams were were teaching that constantly, our whole career up there. I taught English, I hated it, but it brought in a lot of people for salvation, and I mean I mean a lot of people. Uh we taught the the the the seminary uh I also which developed into a full bachelor's degree uh accredited school, uh, and but we also had a seminary with the Indians on a different level. Okay, so there's all that teaching going on, but the illiteracy wasn't the problem there. The illiteracy was literally when you can't speak, you follow whatever's said. So literally, listen to the politicians, listen to the pastors, they're all screamers. And I wasn't. And so to try to build a church when you're not a screamer where everybody else is screaming, so we had to spend years teaching them literally the sufficiency of the scripture in many, many different ways. And in fact, that's why we called it Berean Baptist, our strongest church was the Berean Baptist. Sure. We called it that because I said they questioned Paula, you better be questioning me. And uh once a month we had almost every month, we had what was called the pastor's test, where they could come in and just bombard me with questions and I had to prove what I believed with the Bible. And that was to make them shift their confidence between what I hear and what I read. We had to use imagination for the older people. We had CDs where they could listen to the Bible at home uh and tape decks. And most of our work was with teens. Okay. Second generation.

Kim 50:49

Second generation. And they were getting and they could already read.

Al 50:52

I gotcha. Okay. But that that literally doubled the time it took to to uh plant a a strong church. Sure, sure.

Mark 51:00

So, question for you then how does a missionary end up building a floating hangar house?

Al 51:07

Uh we did uh when I was in Benjamin, which was our first Amazon work, uh, and when I had the best partner I ever had in my entire life for about two or three years before his wife had health problems and they had to come home. Uh, we did a lot of surveying, we did a lot of Indian work, we had a lot of preaching points down the river, and one of those points was this town. And um it it was it was the kind of town that the missionary thinks, wow, you know, there is nobody gonna be able to plant a church in this town. Uh it was so big and so very strongly against Christian missionaries. It was the seat of the bishop. Yeah, the seat of the bishop of the Roman Catholic Church, too. So and uh so with all that, Benjamin came to an end. They had a team of 13 leaders, which, as my wife pointed out, was almost all youth that had come up through the church over 15 years, got saved, gotten a Bible education, all in town, uh, and they were leading the church, and then uh we got a pastor in there to take over, and now it's time to move. And uh at that time we decided to go to Sampolo Giulio Venza from the the the Esquises, I can't think in English, that's why I'm stuttering so much. Surveys from all the surveys. Uh so I started visiting that town with an airplane. Then my father-in-law, the guy is was incredibly gifted. He just invented this thing. He says, Well, you're gonna have a real hard time getting there. You have a family, you have two airplanes to take care of. And so he organized the whole thing and came down on the summer to take my place during furlough, uh, flew and did our works and built this floating house. Um the bottom logs, there's there's 12 of them. The middle one is over 10 feet thick. It's all made of wood that if it's kept underwater, never goes bad. It's a 50-year log underwater. On top of that's Masaranduba, which is the hardest wood in the jungle you have to drill to put a uh a nail in. And so all the beams that hold the whole structure up were done with those. And then the walls were made out of a cedar that they don't have in the States, which is so dark cedar that the termites don't get it. I mean, he thought this whole thing up. Uh, the roof was built kind of uh two V's upside down so that it would collect water. We had rain water uh for drinking, as clear and clean as could be, in stainless steel drums. Uh just just a marvelous design. And they had that so developed that as soon as we came off our furlough, we spent about a week or two there getting used to it and putting on shades, putting in cupboards and stuff with them. And then we sat on the back porch with a pizza as a book pulled out and towed us downriver to our next uh next place. But it was all Hank Skelton's design.

Mark 54:15

So the the floating hangar that you lived in was completely what we would consider off-grid.

Al 54:23

No, not well, I don't know what you mean by off-grid. Again, that's culture shock. Uh learning curve.

Kim 54:27

No electric.

Al 54:28

You had no electricity, no water, no phone service. The water was all rainwater, and we pumped out of the river for toilets and showers. Sure. Because the Amazon River is is quite clean, even though you wouldn't think about it. We we would start the generator up for about two hours at night. At night. So we could run an air conditioner in the study, uh, things like that to get rid of the humidity and where we stored everything so it wouldn't get molded. And wash clothes. And wash clothes.

Kim 54:55

Yeah, we'd wash our clothes at night.

Mark 54:57

Refrigerator was I uh uh gas-powered. Gas-powered refrigerator. Now, um thinking of that, so uh help us because you're living so close to the equator, what's your sunrise and sunset time? Six six. So six in the morning, six at night. All year long. Okay, so you're running this generator like from six to eight p.m. basically? Well, it was my bedtime, so it was eight p.m.

Church Planting, Discipleship, And Duda

Al 55:20

Okay. No, it usually ran from six to about nine. Okay. But we had solar panels, so we had a whole solar s system for the whole house, but that solar couldn't run the washing machine and the air conditioner.

Mark 55:32

So that's why we only ran a few little lights or whatever. Right. Yeah.

Al 55:35

When we had we had two sets of lights, two sets of wiring in the whole house. One was for the generator, which later ran a refrigerator too, and one was for uh the other system was the 12 volt, which all had their own light switches and light bulbs all over. Ingenious. Okay. Is the hanger, I mean, is the floating house still in existence today? You had to ask that question. I I put it on my paper. If you ask that question, you're leaving. I'm I'm I'm withdrawing my tithe. No, that was a sad story, unfortunately. Um, we had to leave the Amazon. My wife's health was getting so poor uh that when we went into town, she basically had to live in the air-conditioned house and the and all the discipleship programs were there because everything was really getting bad. And that's when the doctor said, you know, you need to choose between the Amazon or or your wife. I said, I'll pray about it. Amen. And we left. Um, but the house we had to get rid of. We heard another missionary brand new was coming into Benjamin. We had towed it down from Benjamin. Okay. By the way, that took two nights and an entire day to do it. Okay. Uh, only a 45-minute flight with the airplane. Um, but they towed it down. Well, we thought, we'll give it to this guy for free. I mean, the house could have would have lasted minimum 50 years, minimum, minimum if cared for even more. Well, we I hired a boat, biggest, most powerful boat I could find, to tow it upriver. Two days later, it was still in front of the city trying to get up the current on the side of the thing. Oh, wow. So I'll hire a second boat. And so I hired a second boat to join them and pull them. Two days later, it was up about a mile up the river. I said, This isn't gonna work because I'm paying by the day, you know, and the fuel. So at that point I called down, and there was a young man that used to take care of our airplane at the hospital site. He he was married, had kids, poor as dirt, and didn't have a house of his own. And every time I went with the airplane, I could literally leave it for a week, a month. He'd sleep on the airplane if he had to, pump out floats. He took, I said, Would you like the house? And we learned early from senior missionaries, nothing's free or they don't, you know, value it. So we gave him a price for the house, which I'm not even going to quote over the radio because it was so ridiculously low. And I knew the missionaries would help. So I said, if you can come up with this money, we'll just turn it around, tow it, and you can have it. He got super excited. We towed it downriver. It was with him for about a month, and then he sold it to the mayor. And we won't talk about what they used it for after that. The house is still there. Yeah. And I've already told the Brazilians, if you send me a picture, I will pray against your minute. No, I don't say that. I don't want to see it, you know. It was it was a sad ending for a great house. But it served us for 20 years fabulously. That's awesome.

Mark 58:28

So I know that it's uh I've seen pictures of it. It looks like a pretty place. So nice. Um kind of transitioning a little bit, we're kind of coming near the end here, but can you remember a day um or a period of time on the mission field where you didn't even know if you're gonna keep keep going? Like you were thinking maybe now's the time. Like, why why try anymore? Why not just throw in the towel? And if so, was there a person or a circumstance that encouraged you uh to keep going?

Al 59:03

Um, I tell the joke all the time when I'm teaching uh uh about me when I I told Kim, you know, uh uh I can't stand going to church anymore, it's full of hypocrites. Give me one good reason, and she said, Because you're the pastor. I have been, I'll be honest, and uh, if any pastor is honest, he'll say, There are times in the ministry where you felt like this is just not gonna work. Um, we had three times in our ministry, three entire times where someone got very bitter against us and literally destroyed our work. The last time I lost my most important ministry, entire ministry, uh that I was doing, and my name. Uh Proverbs says, a good name is rather be chosen than gold, and my name was just messed. And there were times where I was very, very discouraged. And my wife is uh probably the most godly woman in the world. She would never usurp authority, but during those times she would always come up to me and say, Al, uh, you need to counsel yourself. And I thank God for those words. But to answer your question, absolutely not. Um, and I'm I know I'm going to embarrass her, but I married the best missionary woman that's ever walked this earth. And uh nothing could have kept her off the field except imminent death, you know. Um uh and so we never, we we we actually made a change, and changing to that last field where we planted our last church was the hardest, most painful move of our life because we were leaving the Amazon. But there was absolutely no doubt, this is God's will. We're gonna go there and give it our all. The hardest thing was coming home and saying, We will never live there again. So, no, the answer was no. We never got to the point where we thought we would quit. Yeah.

Mark 1:00:57

That you perfectly transitioned into another question I have. When in your what we were looking over the notes in preparation for today, you had mentioned um a couple things that were difficult for you in your ministry leaving Brazil. One of them was having an empty nest, all your kids having grown up, the other is coming back to the U.S. You said before that you didn't have culture shock going to Brazil, you had culture shock coming back to your home country, if you will. Um, was what is it about these realities that stick out from your mind after 43 years of ministry in Brazil, and now you're coming back to the States, um your kids are all grown, you're dealing with coming back to the U.S. What is it that sticks out in your mind in those in those situations?

Al 1:01:46

So many things I hope I can remember, but no. The very first thing was as I was riding in my mother-in-law's car, Ruth Skeleton, and she was driving us home from the airport. In my mind, I was saying, this can't be it, you know. Uh uh I retirement is a dirty word. Um I fortunately I can't spell it, so I don't write it very much. Um but uh uh I uh we're saying we're pioneers, first of all. We've always been pioneers, and we knew that that work and aviation for the Lord was over. Um and that was very, very, very painful for me, uh, which is why our work with the seminaries in Brazil now is is keeping me alive, basically. Um, that was hard. The learning curve that Kim said, I'm telling you, I've we've been blown off. Simple as little things for everybody else. Like I'll call my son up and say, Peter, I I don't know how to do this on the computer. He says, Dad, uh just YouTube it. And I said, Who paid your college education? And he comes home and teaches me how to do it. You know, uh, little tiny things were very, very hard. Um uh in that I hope I don't offend anybody that's listening. Uh but to me, the church is so drastically different. Uh a word I would use maybe anemic, compared to the church that we left uh when we went to the field. I can't stand being put on a pedestal. I just and I never have like that. But it was interesting when we went to be missionaries, a missionary conference, wow, man, and they would be all over you with questions, and the conferences were huge, and missions was so alive. And in a lot of churches, that doesn't even exist anymore. Praise God for my church here, Berean, who still has a very strong passion for missions. I'm not saying that because my pastor's looking at me, uh, but uh it is rare, it is very rare. That was painful for me, too. I don't know if you want to add anything. I think that was the main thing. As far as the empty nest, when it was time for the kids to go to my sons to go to college, have a nice time. It was sending the daughters off that was really hard. Gotcha. Uh, especially for me.

Kim 1:04:19

And they were such a big help in the movie. Oh, were they sure?

Al 1:04:22

You felt like you were losing a right-hand man for sure. Yeah, I I this is another dad joke. I I have the the I thought I had the gift of youth group, and I didn't know God took away uh gifts because when my daughters left, I lost that gift. And I'm not talking just by their beauty, they were very active in in in our church down there. Um winning people to the Lord, discipling people. That part was hard.

Mark 1:04:48

Yeah, yeah. And it's really neat too, though, that uh I mean, uh just for those that are listening, our our youth group here at our church just recently went on a missions trip to visit your daughter and her family who serve in the Dominican Republic, and you guys got to go along with them, and I'm sure it probably enthrilled your heart. I know you've been there uh to their ministry before, but just to be able to see it again come full circle, yep, that you've got you know children who are serving the Lord in that regard. Tremendous blessing. Yeah, for sure. Um, if you could sit down with a 25-year-old Alan Kim or whatever age you were, right, as you're embarking on this missionary journey, if you could sit down across the table from them today, what would you tell them?

Al 1:05:34

I'll tell you what my wife would say, and she'll shake her head, yes. They need to get involved in church and everything they can possibly get involved in. Uh, we've had we had teams down there almost every year and sometimes twice a year. Uh and and when we called missionary apprenticeship, they did everything. It was amazing how few of them were involved in church. The mission called. Was just something I felt, and uh uh which isn't good doctrine either. And then when things start getting hard, uh, and you can't get enough training in anything, I mean, even mechanics, everything, when you're a missionary, uh get involved in the church, be doing everything you can in ministries, get evaluations. Uh in fact, the qual the qualifications for a pastor, 1 Timothy 3, when I went to be ordained, I was a little bit different. Uh I sent out a survey to my pastors that I had worked with and the missionaries that I worked one term with, and I said, here are the qualifications, evaluate me, be honest, and put it in paper form. I want to turn it over to the committee that's going to be ordaining me. Uh, I wanted uh I believe nobody should be going to the mission field unless they've demonstrated Acts 13 as they ministered in the church. The Holy Spirit said, separate me, separate them under the ministry. That was the mission first missionary calling. Uh and so uh that that would be what she would say, and I would give a hearty uh amen to that.

Kim 1:07:13

I understood it a little bit different than you did. What was that question?

Mark 1:07:17

Yeah, I was saying if you were able to talk to 25-year-old Alan Kim, what would you tell them today? Um I would say Alan grow up.

Kim 1:07:29

No, I would say you don't have to worry, God's faithful, he's good. No matter what you're gonna go through, he's there with you. He'll and he's gonna make you more like Christ in that process.

Mark 1:07:43

Sure. Um Is there something that you believed at 25 going to the mission field that you don't believe today? I mean what I'm saying is uh maybe perceptions or um things that you were thinking it was gonna be or not gonna be?

Al 1:08:04

Oh boy, I'm in trouble. Um I went to what I thought, uh by the way, anybody listening, it's just my opinion, what I thought was the best Bible college in the country back then. Uh and uh I was very well equipped. When I talked to college kids that had come down from other Bible colleges and the lack of strong biblical doctrine they knew about, I was so grateful for my school. But I found out that not everything we are taught necessarily is biblical. In fact, um I'm not here to make plugs, but when I went from my master's degree in biblical counseling, sitting under some of the best teachers that have ever been in this country, uh I found out that some of the things I was teaching uh really aren't biblical. And the verse that really that really impressed my at my life was in in Proverbs where it says the the word of the Lord is um pure, do not add anything. Uh we have so many cultural and American stuff, add additions and a lot of doctrines that are not there. So um I guess that would be the simple answer to it, though again once again I am very grateful for the Bible education that I got. Sure.

Mark 1:09:27

I think everyone leaves Bible college thinking they know everything. Right. And then they get to where they're going and realize they didn't know. They they didn't know a whole lot. They pass the test, but they don't they're not ready for um and and maybe some of that too is God putting us in a place where we we learn really quick that we're not sufficient in ourselves.

Al 1:09:47

Right. I I'll put a plug here. One of the things I have a really hard time about people with Bibles on the cell phone, uh, there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's really handy to have a Bible in your pocket that you don't have to carry, and I use the Bible on the cell phone. But the only problem is I'm seeing that people are getting really dependent on Google. Uh they really need to have Bibles, they really need to be my Bible is original from when I was in high school. My mom gave it to me. Uh there's almost as much writing uh of mine uh as there is print on the Bible page, but I can beat Google to a passage. And when and my my challenge is when that happens, uh American churches will now have as their main authority Google. Oh, I don't know the verse, I don't know what it says, so let me Google. I'm writing a paper right now, and I have found that a lot of stuff I read isn't right, it isn't proper doctrine that's coming off of those kinds of sources. So um I guess going back to that last question about what I'd tell those young kids is get into the Bible and get into it heavily.

Mark 1:11:02

Well, I know it for my own self. Like when I use and I don't use it a lot, but like when I do use the Bible on my phone, I find myself easily distracted. Yeah. Um, I'll be on the Bible app and then a notification will come up. Bing. And I'll be like, oh, I wonder, and I'll click on that. Next thing you know, you forgot about. Yeah, I'm not yeah, exactly. And again, I think it has its place. Sure does. I think it's like you said, it's very helpful. Uh, but I know there are definitely times where you just really need to put the phone down and just open up a paper Bible. Right.

Kim 1:11:35

We need to use it, not it use us. Yeah.

Al 1:11:38

And it can't get viruses and it can't crash, and you don't have to recharge your Bible every night, you know.

Mark 1:11:44

Um Al, I know knowing you personally, you're very passionate um about missions and the church's role in missions. Uh question for you. And uh Kim, of course, you're more than welcome uh to chime in as well. But if you Al could take five minutes and sit down with every pastor in America, what would you beg them to understand about missions?

Al 1:12:19

Take out the mystic. Um I like to give credit where it's credit due. My father-in-law preached a sermon when before I married uh my wife, um and it was on the call of God. There's a a call of God on people, uh on Christians. Uh and but it can be split up in facets. For example, with Paul, Acts 9 was the call to salvation. Uh who are you and what shall I do? Uh and then Acts 13 is the call to missions. And I have literally 12 things involved in the missionary call, and none of them are it I feel like doing this. Sure. Uh or I uh I feel like God wants me to go. Because as soon as you get there and you hit reality, you aren't gonna feel like it. Right. Um, I used to give the example I love feijoada in Brazil, but if I eat it at nine o'clock at night, I don't even feel saved in the morning, you know. Uh but those things are

Floating Hangar House And Hard Goodbyes

Al 1:13:25

not being taught. And then Acts 16 is the locational part which God moves around. There's only one calling. Uh uh, and sure, there are things that God brings into our life that will take us off the field. Sure. We'd still be there now at 70, coming on 72 years of age, but God made it very clear, no, I got something else for you to do, and it's not with ABWE. Uh so uh but the but normally I'm saved to serve, and that's gonna be till death. And I won I would never have want to punch a clock again. But then the location changes, and that's Acts 16. Uh, God gives you burdens to do that. And I would really enjoy every pastor in the world seeing that sermon outline I got from my father-in-law uh to be able to guide my again, my brain Portuguese, to guide people in what real missions is, biblically speaking. I hope that answers your question.

Mark 1:14:28

Yeah, um uh to I think that, and I don't think this is a hundred percent a bad thing, but I think that there definitely was a movement amongst the American churches at one point where we very romanticized missions work. And I think there, I think it it had its place in the sense that it was the reality of the fact that, hey, if you go to the mission field, life it's gonna be an adventure unlike anything you've ever done. Right. And that's true. Uh, but you don't go to the mission field for the adventure, right? You go to the mission field because you've been called, and the adventure just so happens to be the icing on the cake. Right. And I think that's probably some of where that's come from, is there just hasn't been a proper understanding of what the call of God is.

Al 1:15:12

Right. And I we had a uh couple we worked with that changed their um whole ministry about four times in five years, uh, and was based on that kind of a thing. The longer you go there, and we've been there a long time, the longer you go there, the adventure is being able to look back and again seeing what God did in the lives of people. Right, the faithfulness of God.

Mark 1:15:36

You're right. Yeah. And I think, you know, obviously, um the adventures of Brazil and living there, not having electricity and running water and having to catch your own rainwater, your own drinking water, those kinds of things, uh, that's definitely very different from living an American life. But the reality is, uh, no matter where God calls you and puts you, ultimately to be confident this is God's call in my life, right, and then to look back and say, you know, I just just the reality that the Bible tells us that it's required and a steward that a man be found faithful, to look back over what God can do in the life of an individual or a couple who says this is what God's called us to do. And when it gets hard, we don't throw in the towel because it's not, oh, this wasn't the adventure I signed up for, or this isn't exactly but this is what God's called us to, and then to watch him work through those difficult things, and even like in your own story, you know, the fact that um I'm sure probably one of the hardest decisions you ever had to make as a couple was that this is the time for us to leave Brazil. Like that's you know, um I'm sure at some at some point in a human level, it felt devastating. It was never um, but on the flip side of it, I I believe that your maturity and wisdom and looking back, you can also see how God utilized that and he's still faithful, even as he was in the mission field. The adventure's a little different, right? Yeah, well, yeah.

Al 1:17:07

The adventure right now is 30 of my students are pastors. Yeah. And man, uh you get the pastor, you get the whole church. I mean, I I have a very rich ministry, even if I have to use Zoom to do stuff, you know. Exactly. Yeah. Um, if you want adventure, go up and drive in Atlanta. I got back from there yesterday and I felt more scared there than I did on the Amazon at any time.

Mark 1:17:31

There's probably a lot of truth in that. Um, last question. Every episode of Kingdom Without Borders, I want to end with the same question. As a missionary couple, you've spent f more than four decades following Christ in Brazil. You've seen people come to faith, you've seen churches planted, you've seen lives transformed, but you've also experienced hardship, a sacrifice, and even seasons of waiting. From where you stand today, here's the final question. From where you stand today, what have you learned about God's kingdom that you could have never learned if you had stayed home?

Al 1:18:11

I don't know. Uh if I were in a very good church and I were working in that church, I think I would have learned the very exact same things. Uh and again, I thank God for the wife. Uh I would be nothing on the mission field without her at my side. I think the the the biggest difference was I learned to rapidly adapt and love cultures that were different than ours. Um, all the hugging they do, all that kind of stuff. Uh the you go by a guy's house and he says, Hey, uh come on in and get a cup of coffee. And if you don't, you'd break his heart. Where here you have to make an appointment to go. So and and again, we didn't have a lot, I didn't have a lot of change from that because the Guatemalan culture isn't that much different. It's Latin. But I think I learned a whole lot more about that. But I think if I had the same wife in a good church, all the lessons we learned down there, like the extreme necessity for a strong discipleship program, we would have learned up here too, I think. I don't know if you have a different answer, Kim.

Kim 1:19:34

Um I I think just the necessity of needing it created the environment to go ahead and do it that probably wouldn't have done it up here. We would have found a resource here. Sure. And that's we didn't have one there.

Al 1:19:52

Yeah, yeah, we did. I married her. No. Um we had to make everything our own, the own clubs, uh, the camps, everything was was by that.

Kim 1:20:04

And um from my perspective, looking at if we had been here, would it have been the same? I can say no, because in the Amazon we didn't have those resources. Uh we didn't have internet, we didn't have cassette tapes when we first went, we didn't have a radio program, uh, books. And it made us depend on God's word for answers, uh, for ideas of what to teach. Um it made us see that God's word is sufficient. We didn't need all that other, those other things. We had God's word, and that was enough to help um build a church, see people grow and sanctify, and ourselves.

Al 1:20:56

And it also had the added advantage of it put a great urgency on the discipleship program because we were raising all the leaders. Sure. There weren't partners. There were nursery. We were yeah, from the bottom up.

Mark 1:21:11

Yeah. And you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that because um I think resources have their place. They sure do. Like, and I think as as as English speaking Christians, we have an enormous resource, an enormous amount of resources available. Um, maybe to the point it I I don't I'd be careful to call it detrimental, because I think if it's kept in its right place, it it definitely has its purpose. But wow, what what a what a great reminder to us that um we we take a lot of things

Coming Home, Culture Shock, And Closing Charge

Mark 1:21:45

for granted, probably um, even in something as simple as the ability to be able to go to a bookstore um or to get on the internet and to find something that's a resource available. Um, but on the flip side of that, both of you said something that I think um resonates with this idea of God's kingdom, and that is um Al mentioned the idea of, you know, hey, uh you could go uh to someone's house and and and I think what's interesting about that is that we end up coming to the point where I think living outside of American culture and and being an American, living outside of American culture, coming back, um, because our culture because our culture um affects or colors the way we see the world, we think of church whether whether it's right or wrong, we kind of view church as an American as an American thing. Are you are you understand what I'm saying? Yep. But the reality is I think one of the things that um has been influential, I think, in your life, as you've mentioned, is that you realize that there's a bigger picture. Um there are other believers and there's relationships to be made. And then Kim, you've made the point of the fact that that also means then that there are resources that need to be developed. Um, especially I think of for for outside of the English speaking world. Um, I've heard missionaries repeatedly say things like, We wish that we had these kinds of things. And that's even an opportunity for future missionary work um involved in the area of translation and just helping make great resources available. Um, but what a what a good reminder to us that God's kingdom is thriving, uh his church is doing well around the world. Yeah, and um we kind of we can become kind of isolated and um myopic, I think is maybe the word like you know, we have this one with this one vision, and we forget that there that there are multitudes of nations, tribes, and tongues who are worshiping and serving God in places that we don't know of, and in ways very different than we do.

Kim 1:23:57

And God has innovative ways.

Mark 1:23:59

Yes, that's yeah, that's it. He's innovative there's so many things uh that are happening around the world, and um it should encourage us as God's people to pray uh for our fellow believers uh in other places and uh obviously pray for the missionaries that are taking the gospel, but ultimately the goal isn't to be the one uh who gets the praise and the credit and the glory, it's just to be the tool that God uses to bring a people group to himself, and then the beauty of it, as you guys have shared, is then to watch those people then turn around and do it, take off and run with it, exactly. And uh, and so I know that's but definitely been um beneficial or or encouraging in your ministry, and I just want to personally say thank you for 43 years plus, right? We're still counting, it's not over, uh, faithful ministry and um and being an example to those that are watching. I know personally, as a friend, uh you guys have been an encouragement and a help to me, and uh I have really enjoyed this opportunity. I just sit down and talk. Is there anything you want to share before we wrap it up?

Al 1:25:08

I just finished a book um in him, uh God Stories from the Mighty Uh Great Amazon River. Um, that book's only purpose was to show this is all of God. It's not a missionary. I mean, there's just tons of stuff that I've been they've been begging me to put in book form. That book uh is gonna be released today.

Mark 1:25:33

My prayer is that um hopefully, you know, obviously this is just getting started, so it'll take time, but maybe this will be a tool that God will use to encourage missionaries, other church folks, uh mission boards, those kinds of things. Well, thanks guys for doing this. I appreciate it. Hopefully, it wasn't too bad. Is there anything that you wanted to share that we didn't get to?

Al 1:25:56

No, not that uh not that I can think of. Okay. Well, I appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you very much. God bless you and our church. Yep, praise the Lord.

Mark 1:26:06

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Kingdom Without Borders. I hope Alan Kim's story has encouraged you and reminded you that God is faithfully building his kingdom in every corner of the world through ordinary people who simply say yes to his call. If you'd like to learn more about Alan Kim's ministry, visit the Yoder Ministry.com. That's the Yoder Y-O-D-E-R ministry.com, where you can learn more about their work in Brazil and ways to pray for and support their ministry. You can also find information about Al's newly released book in Him. It's a collection of stories that were born out of decades of walking with Christ and investing in the lives of others. For links to their ministry in the book, be sure to check the show notes. If today's conversation encouraged you, would you do me a favor? Share this episode with a friend, your pastor, or someone in your church who has a heart for missions. One simple share can help these stories reach someone who needs to hear how God is working among the nations. And if you haven't already, I'd be grateful if you'd leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. It only takes a minute, but it helps more people discover Kingdom Without Borders and these incredible stories of God's faithfulness. Finally, I would love to connect with you personally. I want to encourage you to visit us at KingdomwithoutBorders.org, where you'll find show notes, ministry resources, and every episode of this podcast. You can also subscribe so you'll never miss a conversation. And if you'd like to connect, drop me an email at mark at KingdomwithoutBorders.org. Until next time, remember this God's kingdom knows no borders, and he is still writing his story among the nations.