Why Faithfulness Starts Before Going

Dave 0:03

Start now. Don't wait till you get to the mission field. If you're not involved in your local missions, you're serving in your church there now, you won't last on the mission field, and you won't do it on the mission field.

Mark 0:21

What does missionary life really look like in a country where spiritual fruit often comes slowly and faithfulness is measured in years rather than days? Today on Kingdom Without Borders, we're joined by missionary Dave Price, who serves in southern France with his wife, Melissa, and their children. Dave was born there as a son of missionaries, and he never imagined that one day God would lead him back. Join us as David shares stories of God's surprising provision, transformed lives, and the quiet faithfulness that has marked nearly two decades of ministry in France. Here's my conversation with Dave Price.

Born In France And Called Back

Mark 1:02

You know, David, as I was reading over the questionnaire that I sent you, your story is pretty unique in the sense that you were born in France. You spent, I think you said your first nine years there as a child, moved back to the States, and then now you find yourself back in France as a missionary. Um looking back now, how do you see God using those things to piece together his calling in your life to this place right now?

Dave 1:32

So, uh like you mentioned, um my calling, uh my uh call to the ministry is quite different than, say, the average American missionary. Even though I look at myself as an American, I sound American, I'm sitting between two different worlds. Um, I have this third culture where it is a mix of an American and a French culture. I've spent most of my life overseas and in France, living here in France. And so that has been a very important aspect of the call to the ministry, and that having grown up here allowed me to understand uh the French culture, allowed me to understand uh the nuances that maybe a lot of American missionaries had a very or still have a very difficult time to understand and grasp uh when they come here to the mission field and just be able to integrate pretty easily once we got back here to France uh on the mission field. Now, I think it's also a strong point in the fact that when we came here, um I knew full well what I was going to be facing. Sure. Because I had seen my parents go through it. I had seen our church in Bizia where I was born and grew up, how it slowly grew, how it slowly evolved, how it slowly uh I came to uh a bit of a maturity uh where my dad was able to uh move on uh and back to the States because of health problems. So I I fully expected what we experience on the mission field. So that did help a lot uh with the call to the ministry, but it was also and serving here on the mission field, but it was also a detriment. Oh in the fact that most of the world has the dream to go to America and get to America and live the American dream. Um life is pretty good in the States, even though what we hear nowadays is horrible, right? But life in the States is really, really good. Um, and so when I was a kid and growing up, and we would have uh friends and family and guests from supporting churches come over and visit, I'd hear all these stories, and I'm going, oh wow, one day, one day. And then the Lord led the family back to the states, and we were there. And so when it came to time to surrendering to the ministry, surrendering to the mission field of France specifically, I was why? Why go back to where it's going to be difficult? Why go back to where we're gonna struggle? Why go back to this place where uh the Christian faith is uh looked down on or even a negative thing? Uh so that it was difficult for me uh to come and say, okay, Lord, if that's really where you're calling me, uh I'll go. Uh knowing full well the struggles it would be uh serving here in France.

Mark 4:38

So you would say then that even as a child, you you you didn't dream to be a missionary back to France. It's not like you're okay, so this is not your childhood dream then.

Dave 4:50

No, no, it is not. It was a uh several year spiritual battle actually to get uh uh not necessarily just called to France and missions uh specifically, uh, but also just generally to the ministry, called to the ministry uh and saying, okay, Lord, if this is what you really would have me to do, uh uh I'll do it.

Mark 5:13

Now, I

Trial By Fire In The Bronx

Mark 5:14

think does that tie in at all with the story that you shared about serving in the Bronx? Um how how is that instrumental in getting you to France or maybe getting you to a place of saying, I'll do whatever you want me to do?

Dave 5:26

So um uh let me give you a little bit of background of who I am as a person. I'm a quite shy uh introvert person. I know uh most people don't uh expect that uh when I say it, but I I don't like to be in front of people. I don't like uh uh uh starting conversations. So one of my biggest struggles about uh being called to the ministry was knowing that I was going to have to be in front of people, knowing that I was going to have to speak up and speak out. And that was a very difficult thing for me. It still is today, but the Lord's given me somewhat of a victory, even though it's constantly a battle. Uh, but um just getting to the point where I would say, Lord, okay, this is not me. I'm not comfortable with this. Uh, I don't think I'm capable of doing this, and it's just I don't think I know I'm not capable of doing this. But Lord, if you're calling me, okay, but you're gonna have to do it because it's certainly not coming from me. It's certainly not me uh naturally gonna be able to do this. And so I got to the point where um uh during my freshman year at college, the Lord really burdened my heart about going into the ministry. And so my mind uh went to immediately what would be the easiest maybe ministry uh there would be. So I thought youth ministries. Teens, they're not gonna criticize anything. Well, little did you know. That's not yeah, little did I know. But so I started in a youth ministry uh major program, and then the Lord started really working on my heart about missions. And uh it was uh several years later I changed my major to missions. Uh, and uh and it was during that summer, uh that following summer also that I had the opportunity to work in my future father-in-law's church in the Bronx in New York City. And uh if you know anything about my father-in-law, you know this that he's going to put you in the most awkward, uncomfortable situations just to get you out of your little box so that the Lord can use you. Trial by fire. Exactly. And it was the best thing for me. Um within the first couple days, uh, I was running a 15-passenger van through the Bronx of New York City. Um, I still have somewhat of a southern accent, right? So you can imagine me with my southern accent going through the Bronx, going through the projects, going up into these buildings, getting kids, getting them down to uh the park, having Bible clubs, having outreach with them, preaching, street preaching, preaching in the church, uh just things I would have never thought to be able to do. But with my father-in-law, it's not an option to say no. Um, you're here, you signed up for the ministry for the summer, you're gonna do it, you're gonna try it. And for me, it was okay, obviously this is not me, but the Lord worked through that and confirmed my call to the ministry. Okay, yeah, it doesn't have to be me. I just need to step out of the way and let the Lord do it. Awesome. I remember being on the street corner in New York City, uh street preaching, and I know maybe in all contexts, that's not the best of situations, uh, but in the Bronx 30 uh 29 years ago, it worked. Yeah. Um, and we saw people saved, and we saw the church grow by uh almost a hundred people over a matter of a couple months. Um, so the Lord worked in uh a tremendous way, and so it was that experience, trial by fire, that confirmed the call to the ministry uh for me. Yes, if God is calling me to it, he will enable me to do uh what he's called me.

Mark 9:16

That's a great reminder. So you were saying then, like that was Melissa's dad. Um is were you and Melissa at that point in a relationship or we were so that was um between uh so we met uh before our freshman year.

Dave 9:35

We were uh down in uh at the school working uh the the summer before uh school started to pay for our school bills, and we met there, started dating. And that was between our uh freshman and sophomore year that I did that internship in the church.

Mark 9:50

And

Melissa’s Early Certainty About France

Mark 9:51

then so how did that um I guess my question, I'm thinking about like, so how did this then kind of correlate with Melissa and you and knowing that the two of you were called to missions, or where does that fit into the picture? Her calling or her willingness to go to France?

Dave 10:08

Right. So I I know there's uh somewhat of a debate is uh the wife called uh just in the same way as the husband is called. Uh we're not here to develop all that, probably. But uh you know what's funny, um, so I was struggling with being called to the ministry. I was struggling with being called uh later on, not just to the ministry, the mission specifically, and then uh missions to France. Uh all these took several years to work through to get to that point where, okay, this is exactly what the Lord's calling me to. But as soon as Melissa started dating me, uh, we started dating, um uh in her mind, I don't know how it all fell into place, but in her mind, she had already come to the conclusion, okay, if I date him, if we get married, we're going to France.

Mark 10:57

But you didn't know this.

Dave 10:59

No, I didn't know this. This was in her head uh several years before I had even come to the conclusion, what am I doing in my life? Her, it was already settled. And then when I uh when we were dating and we were married when everything kindly really came clear in my mind, yes, France for sure. And it wasn't uh, you know, a lightning strike and a special revelation, but it was like, okay, this is I know this is what God is calling me to do. And I was telling Melissa this, and she's like, What? This wasn't settled. I thought we were going to France to begin with. That's crazy. Uh, and so the the burden and the love and the desire uh to serve in the mission field in France was already in place in her heart. Ever before it was clear in my head uh and in my heart. That's so neat how God worked that together, yeah.

Mark 11:55

Yeah, that's really cool. And so, kind of now with the with that in mind, kind of go back in your

A Car And Home In 48 Hours

Mark 12:02

mind, if you will. You had written you had written something about how you guys, when you first got to France, you landed in Paris. Take us back to like that first 48 hours. Like you you you wrote a remarkable story about like finding a car and a house and just how God put all those pieces together. Can you share that story?

Dave 12:21

So um we got married, uh, we finished up uh our schooling, I finished up other degrees, um, started deputation, finished deputation two years uh uh after we started. That's where we met uh uh during that time. Uh the Lord was good, he led us uh together in that way. And we are ready to go. And uh we were visiting a last couple churches uh just to update them, waiting to go. We're waiting on our visas. And a church in Atlanta that supports us uh uh had one of the gentlemen in their church was a pilot or a worker for Delta. And he says, I get free tickets. Uh would you like them? But you have to fly standby. Oh, free standby, that's fine with me. Free is good. And so we get on this plane, uh, we're flying standby, we get on the plane and we fly to Paris. We leave Thursday night, we arrive Friday morning, we drive down uh from Paris to southwest France. It's an eight-hour drive. So we spend all day Friday driving down to um some missionaries' homes where we're gonna stay. And we arrive, we head to bed, and uh the next morning the missionary is gonna take us to Saturday, right? Uh it's a Saturday. It's a Saturday morning, okay. This is Saturday morning. So the missionary is gonna uh take us to go visit some car lots and look at possibly buying a car, and then maybe try to get a couple appointments for finding an apartment uh to rent um uh sometime during the week of the following week. And we fully expect to be spending several months in uh the with the missionary and their uh lodging that they had uh available for us. And so we get up, we eat breakfast, and it's 8 in the morning, 8:30 in the morning, we get into the car and we go, and there is a um uh car lot, uh car dealership in the middle of nowhere. It's more of a mechanic shop than a car dealership, but he had cars for sale. And between where we were out in the country uh to the town uh in Sangoldens, where we actually live today, it's a 30-minute drive. About 15 minutes driving through the country. We stop in, and there's the car. There's the car. I have everything, uh, the just the piece how the Lord uh I lined everything up, the piece that he gave. Perfect vehicle. Cheaper than what I was hoping, better than what I was hoping. Uh, signed everything and we walked away. I had to wait for the uh government paperwork to go through and had the car purchased that day. Wow. We get in the car, so that took about an hour, hour and a half uh uh to get done. So we're pushing 11 o'clock now by the time we get into town and single dance where we live. And we park, we come up uh main street into town, first parking lot we uh park there. We get out of the car, walk across the circular uh round uh uh bit that's the a part of the old uh walled cities where it's a circle of the town is. So we cross the street where those uh old ancient walled cities were, uh, and then are looking into the windows of uh a rental agency and looking at the announcements that are available. And so uh we're sitting there and we're talking, and obviously we're talking English uh amongst us, and then a gentleman just walks up behind us and asks, uh, excuse me, pardon, est-ce que vous cherchez? Um are you looking for uh a place to rent? And our immediate response is sure, yes. He says, Well, I have a place to rent, and it's right there, right next to where we had parked. Three minutes from where the church was going to be. Wow. Uh three minute walk, not just drive, but walk, okay. And so he says, I don't have the keys. Give me 10 minutes, I'll run home, grab the keys, and I'll meet you. And I'll let you visit uh the apartment. We he gets back, we walk in, uh walk up to this building, uh look at it, and handshake agreement, okay. Yes, uh, we're gonna rent the place. And we were out and back to uh the uh missionary's home with the lodging there 30 minutes later for noon to eat lunch. That's crazy. That following Monday, uh, he didn't have all the paperwork to uh sign the rental contract. That follow Monday, we signed the papers, uh, got the keys and started moving in the same day. That's amazing. What is even more impressive, uh the Lord was really good. That very same weekend that we arrived in France, we had met a French couple that was moving overseas uh to uh Martinique uh for a couple years. And they had a real burden to help uh pastors and missionaries get started. And they were a young couple, younger than what we were, uh, and um, but they had a love for missions. We had met them in the States, they were moving out and needed to empty their apartment the same weekend. And so that Monday when we signed, that we went back up an hour's drive where where they were living, loaded everything up, and got it uh to uh the new apartment that we're moving in. I tell you what, if there was not uh another way, this was the most perfect way to confirm that this is where the Lord was calling us to. This is exactly what He had for us in our for our lives and for the ministry. Not only the place, but transportation, vehicle, furniture. Every we within a weekend, we had everything in place.

Mark 18:27

That's remarkable. And again, like you said, that's obviously uh the Lord confirming in tangible ways. I mean, uh He doesn't always do that for us, we know that. But that what a great you know reminder that um I think again, I mean, obviously, you having the confidence that you're where God wants you to be is gonna help you be more effective in your ministry, um for sure.

Dave 18:52

That's exactly right, yes. Um, it is. I and and for us when we arrived here, we knew this was where God was calling us to. This uh we were at peace about this. But then for him to come and have all these things orchestrated and put into place um uh there, if there was ever any doubt, it just evaporated away uh very quickly.

Mark 19:17

Sure. What a relief to know that um these temporal things are important, they're important to God. Uh and it's it's just why it's amazing to watch and hear how He provided. That's crazy that within three days of being there, he had a fully furnished apartment and a car within three minutes, a three-minute walk of the church that you were going to be planting. What a remarkable testimony, uh for sure. The Lord is really good. That's awesome. You

Why Ministry In France Feels Slow

Mark 19:43

know that so with that in mind, uh, one of the things that you said in uh the notes that I had was we were getting ready to pre uh prepare for this, uh, you wrote this phrase and it stood out to me, and I wanted to kind of take it apart a little bit. You said missionary work is often slow and deeply relational. It can take years to gain people's trust and to see lasting spiritual fruit. Um can you paint for me a picture of I I want I want our listeners, I had the privilege in high school, my dad was in the military. I lived in Spain uh when I was in high school, and so I kind of understand a little bit of the culture in Europe concerning uh religious uh our practices and religion, they're they're pretty resistant to the gospel. Uh, but could you paint a picture for us of what do you mean when you say slow ministry? What does that actually look like in relate for like an American understanding what this missionary is facing uh in their field?

Dave 20:46

So um oftentimes when uh we are visiting churches in the states, uh we uh I come in and say for a missions conference. Uh there's us and then other missionaries. And oftentimes we're probably the only ones going to Europe. Most of them are Africa or South America or Oceania or um uh Middle East or something. Um, and so what we have been confronted with was uh this reality that in the American church, missions is oftentimes Africa, South America, what maybe some people would classify as a third world country, which means uh the people are possibly a bit more open because they see they have a need. Sure. And you as an American missionary coming in, you have financial means, financial stability, uh, you have everything in place. So they're looking at you and they're almost not envious, but they are desirous of what you have. So there's already this opening uh towards you that they're going, that's what I hope to be. And then you come in. With the response, well, the material thing is not the answer, but here's the spiritual answer. Why I am uh why I'm here, and then it has this natural open door sometimes, not all the times, but sometimes it can also be uh uh difficult. But because of that, uh I my impression uh is that uh there is um fruit that comes quicker in those types of settings. Uh the guys that I study with at Bible College, uh, a lot of them have started ministries and works uh on the mission field, and they've started four, five, six, seven churches. And all of these churches are several hundred people, if not more. Where we are one church, one church, um uh with uh 50 to 75 on a Sunday. Um and so that's what I mean by slow uh persistent. When you come to France, they're looking at you as an American going, Well, there is this American dream, live uh the blessings and the material blessings of America, but your religion, we don't need that. We we we've gone past the need for that. We don't need that crutch in our life. Um, and that's the the positive way of looking at you. Um most people would look at us as a cult. Oh so what I mean by slow is uh first off, we have to gain their confidence and that they see that we are not a cult and that we're good, normal people, and then it gives us the opportunity to share the gospel message. That doesn't mean that we um don't go out soul winning, that doesn't mean we don't, but generally what we we don't expect much fruit from them. Sure. What where we expect the fruit is these relationship building processes where which with the French can take years. Um uh the neighbor uh to our left uh of our house, um we moved into our home eight years ago. It is just the last four years that we can actually sit down and have a coffee. Where beforehand, oh, that's that crazy uh pastor, priest, I don't know what you call them. Uh kind of uh, you know, be polite, but it no more than that. Uh and so just us living in front of her, allowing her to see me helping, going and pushing uh the lawnmower and cutting her grass and maintaining things and helping her with other things, it opens the door. And so it just takes years and years sometimes to reach them with the gospel where they're ready to hear. And if you go too fast, you'll close the door. Uh, where uh they they won't listen to you anymore. They'll feel like you're pressuring them or so you have to find that fine balance of not being laxadaisical in your approach to evangelism, but really leaning on the depending on the Holy Spirit leading you in these uh conversations, okay. Now's the time to talk. Or no, now's the time to be silent and let uh your testimony work in their lives.

Raising Kids In A Third Culture

Mark 25:30

So just a kind of a just a question that I have, I guess. So thinking of that and thinking that through, then uh you have two children, right? So how are you um helping them understand or how are they growing even in this area of developing relationships as far as are do they are they homeschooled? Do they go to school there?

Dave 25:50

Or no, uh, they're in a private school here in town. Um the Lord is good and worked uh those uh details out for us. Uh so um here in France uh homeschooling is not against the law, but you have to get special permission uh based on uh your child's uh uh capabilities uh if you're traveling, and we just don't fit the criteria. Uh we live here. Uh if we traveled uh 10 months out of the year, okay. Uh if your child is a genius, okay. If your child is in sports and he's traveling uh nine out of 12 months out of the year, okay. Otherwise, no. Uh so uh there's this private school here in town that that uh allows us to be able to uh uh get a good education for our kids, uh, and it works great for us. So, how do I uh uh transmit this idea of building relationships to our children? And actually, it comes naturally because they see us doing it, they reproduce it. Um we have a monthly Bible club at the uh church uh for outreach for the kids. Um and most of 90% of the kids who come and who have come over the years are friends of our children. That's awesome. And uh we've averaged uh so okay, it's European numbers, okay? We've averaged between 15 to 25 kids per year for the last 15 years in this uh outreach.

Mark 27:23

That's great. So um your kids then actually well, I think you have a unique situation in that because you were raised as a missionary kid in France, then you understand your kids being in this what you called, I guess, third culture, this in-between. Um how as a dad have you tried to uh shepherd them or guide them? I have have you noticed, have you seen some similarities maybe of things that you struggled with as a child that they too are struggling with?

Dave 27:52

Or um, yes, uh honestly, actually, yes. Um as uh Karis and Ian are growing up, they're now 13 and 11. Um you see them. Um, okay, am I French or am I American? Sure. Uh who am I? Um also uh there is not only the cultural identity, who am I, what am I, how do others perceive me, but it's also um ministry. Uh and how do uh do I adjust being what is perceived as a normal child, but I'm not allowed to do everything else, so I'm not normal. Um, all the friends at school uh can do things we can't. How do you balance these things? And I've come to the conclusion, uh, because of having grown up in that, um it was a different time when I was growing up. So maybe the uh discussions and conversations, it was more Dave is just that way. Sure. Yeah. Where um, and that there was nothing wrong with that. Uh, but I find that it it is more important to have conversations and clear explanations for my children why, and lead them to come to the same conclusion instead of saying it is this way, uh, and then more so coming at it, well, what does God expect of us? He expects this, this, this, and this. Okay, so what does that mean practically? How how so do you think then that he would be happy to see me doing this or you doing that? And you you know how it is with children, right? No, but they're not a happy right, yeah, exactly. I know what you mean, but no, I still want to do it. No, all right, well, what are we doing? What are we gonna do? Well, no, we're not gonna do it. So it is uh it is it it can be time consuming sometimes, um, but I think that's a better approach than just a flat no. Uh allowing them to come to that conclusion on their own, knowing that if they don't come to that conclusion, there is always the no, this is not what we're going to do. Or yes, this is what we're going to do. Um but uh working with them and taking the time to work with them to bring them to that uh decision themselves.

Mark 30:28

Well, that's you know, parenting is hard work, obviously. We were fully aware of that. But I do appreciate you said, and that you were just talking, you said that your goal was to lead your children. And I think of like, you know, the idea of, you know, obviously as a pastor, the you know, I like I even when like learning and uh living in Spain, uh the word for pastor is the same word, pastor is the same word they use for shepherd, right? And so it's this idea of leading. Um, and so even as a parent, you know, we're pastoring, we're leading, shepherding our children. And uh it just it's obviously I feel like there's probably a parenting's hard, but then you have another layer on top of that because you've got kids that you're uh, you know, you I mean, at the end of the day, the reality is they may choose to, the Lord may lead them back to France to live, or the reality is they may go back to the United States and you have, you know, you're raising children with a foot in two different worlds and trying to help them navigate that, I'm sure, is definitely um not always easy. And uh but leading them, I think, is really a powerful uh picture there.

Dave 31:39

I think so.

Avoiding The Bubble While Protecting Hearts

Dave 31:41

When we arrived here in France, I started talking with veteran missionaries and asking them, what did they do with their children? Did they homeschool them? Did they send them to uh the school system here in France? How did you uh interact with them? How what did you do? And it was not sit-down interview process, but it was me just having friendly conversations with uh pastor friends, missionary friends, and asking what was the secret uh for you before we even had kids. Uh and um and then one thing that stood out in my mind was the ones who were hyper-protective of their kids, which means homeschooled, isolated from this French society, a large majority of those children were no longer even in church. They had rebelled, they had struggled because they lived in this little bubble, and as soon as they got out of the bubble, they realized this is not real life, right? This is not normal. And so um I intentionally decided, okay, Lord, help me protect my kids. But knowing that they have a ministry also, and their ministry can have an even probably greater impact on our church and church plant than what I can do because they're gonna naturally have friends, they're gonna naturally invite kids to our homes to play and have play dates and birthdays and uh being invited uh uh left and right with friends. And so it has opened the door. And so what I found was that it is really, really important for them to understand uh that you are in the ministry with us. This is not mom and dad's ministry, this is our ministry. This is how we as a family serve the Lord. Um and your role and your impact is just as important as mine or your mom's, uh, because you're the one actually bringing the kids to the Bible club. You're the one actually bringing the kids to the teen club, uh, teen uh uh youth group. Um and so uh, you know, they are a tremendous blessing in the ministry and have opened uh many, many doors. Um, but again, you have to watch uh and uh pray over your children and accompany them through everything because they are confronted. My kids are confronted with things that American uh uh church kids who are in church schools uh or homeschooled will never face. Sure. And how do you prepare them for that life? Well, you pray and you talk.

Mark 34:29

Um several years ago, uh we decided, I say several years ago, my goodness, it's been my daughter's going in ninth grade. So when she was in kindergarten, she's our youngest, um, there's just there were some changes in our life and ministry opportunities. And um, Sarah went to work at the church and things like that. And so we quit homeschooling and we sent our kids to the local public school. Our oldest would have been going into eighth grade, our youngest was going into kindergarten. And I remember really struggling with that um from the aspect of is this a a wise thing? Are we you know sacrificing our children, you know, to, you know, you hear all the horror stories and these things. And what we found was as a parent, we had uh gospel opportunities to discuss with our children really important, difficult things that I think had we not had they been in a homeschool environment or a Christian school, and I'm in no way saying I think they all have their place. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. But in that in that environment, we were able to shepherd our children through some really conversations that we would not have had otherwise. And the Lord allowed that. And I was and I remember looking back and thinking, what a gift that our children were still in our home, under our um protection, leadership, however you want to put it, and we were able to have these conversations. And I think the thing that gave me the most peace, Dave, when we decided to do that was um, I remember the summer that we were on the fence to be, you know, where it's like it's time to buy new homeschool curriculum, or is this what we're gonna do, or are we gonna put them in public school? And I mean, we have a great public school system, uh, you know, it's so, and I understand that may not be the case everywhere, but the thing that I prayed, me and Sarah prayed about, and I said, Lord, I I need peace, clarity, I want to know, you know, obviously I can't know the future, but help me make a wise decision. And there were several people in scripture, Moses, Joseph, Daniel, that God brought all these individuals to my mind who lived in, and as a matter of fact, at the time I was even preaching a sermon series through the book of Daniel, who lived in a place where uh they were they were the minority. They it was a uh a godless society, if you will. And yet these people, these Bible characters turned out godly. And I think the ultimate reality was I had to realize that the responsibility was on me as a parent not abdicating that to a Christian school or a youth pastor. Um, but that, and so you know, I have because I feel like, you know, we're living in a time where uh I can tell you a lot of Christian schools who uh I wouldn't send my kids there. Um and I think we're living in a time where that where the church needs to realize that we have been called to be salt and light. And if we believe the scriptures, the scriptures tell us that God has given us everything that we need to live soberly and righteously in this present world. And that means that we that we as parents then can also raise and guide our children to live soberly and righteously. Um, but that's a really exciting and encouraging thing to hear uh about your kids and their responsibility or their response, I should say, to being part of the ministry. Um, I know being full-time uh in ministry, there's, you know, whether your kids like it or not, they were born into a missionary's home, they were born into a pastor's home, this is what they're doing, right? Exactly. But they didn't get much of a say oh. But the thing is, is we have such a a responsibility to shepherd their heart because I realize that God may not call my children, any of them, or all of them, however, he, whatever he decides to do, into full-time ministry. But man, I want them to be godly moms and dads and dependable employees and a person who exemplifies Christ in all that they do. And the thing is, is I, you know, like you said, I want them to own the ministry. And it's not ministry like, oh, dad's a pastor or dad's a missionary, but own the responsibility of being a Christ follower. Right.

Dave 38:53

Exactly. I think that um we do a disservice to our children within our churches, where, as you mentioned, that we give our kids to the church or the school and say, you train them. You raise them. That's not the that's not the biblical approach, and that's not the biblical example to follow. Uh, it is our uh responsibility as parents to train our children and to prepare them for the ministry, prepare them for life as believers, as followers of Christ. And so I think that my kids are able to see they have an open window on uh a different aspect of what ministry is. Now, if the Lord uh calls them to the ministry, praise the Lord. Sure. But if he doesn't, well they're not going, they're not doing anything different now than what I would hope any of the other children in my church would be doing. Right. Uh I my prayer is that all the children in our church are just actively inviting and talking and sharing and uh uh loving on others uh because they were loving God.

Mark 39:58

Living out their faith, maybe I shouldn't say maybe living out their faith because they've seen their parents exemplify that themselves. And uh yeah, that it becomes a natural thing. You know, we never want to be uh people I I think you're you're fully right. People can pick up on the uh the the shallow uh you know, if you're just putting on show or just doing this because you have to, uh it doesn't that doesn't last for long. One of the things that I I wrote down uh in response to some of the things that you shared was I feel like your story, your testimony of ministry in France is one of faithfulness, even when the fruit hasn't been super evident. Um and and the reality is that's what you know we know as parents, we know as believers that our kids are going to face difficulties. And we want to encourage them and instruct them now that we're gonna be faithful even whenever it gets hard. And that only happens whenever, honestly, that only happens whenever you're parenting your children through hard situations that they're gonna have to learn of those realities. Um, you know, that reminds me a little bit of a story that I want to kind of transition into.

A Conversion That Reshaped A Family

Mark 41:11

Uh, you shared a couple stories that stood out in uh the uh in the notes as we were getting ready. The one that was memorable was the one about the lady who trusted Christ. And then her family kind of, I don't know if I is the right word, if they disowned her or they there was just some family struggles, right? And then eventually there was uh a, I don't want to give the story away, but there was like a a like a to be continued, you know, uh better ending. So can you share that with us a little bit?

Dave 41:41

Sure. Uh so um uh when we uh first got to France, uh uh, you know, we were looking at ways of outreach. What can we do to reach people? And so um having grown up here, I knew that one way that was kind of effective, maybe not the most fruit for the labor, but uh it's better than nothing, uh, was to go around. And you might have done this when you were in Spain, you you can actually put things in people's mailboxes here. So uh we were going through and putting people's in uh uh putting uh tracks and and church invitations and people's uh uh mailboxes, and we come and we talk to people when we come across from the street, and we came across this lady uh that was in her home, her door was open, and we were putting it in her mailbox, started, struck up a conversation, and she invited us in. It was like, what in the whole no, this this does not happen. This does not happen. Um, this is one in a million. Um, and so uh we come in and she offers us coffee and we sit down and we start talking, having a conversation, and open up the Bible, and she understands and she prays and accepts Christ as her savior right then and there. That's for here in Europe, that's just unbelievable. That's that's a miracle. I mean, salvation is a miracle, but this is the super miracle.

Mark 43:09

Obviously, the Holy Spirit was already working.

Dave 43:12

Yeah. Yes. And she uh she had come from a cultural background where there was already an openness. She um she's French, but not cultural French uh uh just to kind of protect the identity of uh these different people if they uh listen. But anyway, so we leave the home and then we're just like, oh, God's good. Look at what he did. And so I get home, tell Melissa, and we're excited. I have her number. Um, here's the true test. Am I going to be able to pick her up for church on Sunday? Uh and then um so we get all that orchestrated, we pick her up to church for church, we bring her to church, and for months she came uh to church. Her family found out within this cultural setting. Um, there's the patriarch, and whatever he decides goes. She was living in the family home, and uh he found out that she was coming to our church, which is a cult, because we're not Catholic and we're not whatever their culture has. And uh it came down to either you go to that church, but you're out of the home and you're out, or you quit going to the church and you can stay in the family home. And so um, what do you do? She's in her late 60s, uh, she's not a young lady, uh, she's in her late 60s, she's gonna uh be without. So the decision was made okay, right now let's stop, and we'll keep contact, we'll pray. About a year, year and a half later, something roughly about that, um we're out soul winning again, and I meet this young man, and he comes to church. Uh he gets saved. Uh, it took maybe a month or two uh to get all that orchestrated. Um, the Lord was leading and working there also. He was going through struggles in his uh marriage and his couple and his home. Um he gets excited, he brings his uncle by marriage uh to church. He gets saved uh about uh two, three weeks later. Um and then they're both on fire and excited about serving the Lord and excited about sharing. And the uncle that is uh by marriage of this young man that I met out soul winning, uh, the uncle is the brother of this lady that we had met and had uh brought to the church uh a year, year and a half beforehand. The same man that had not allowed his sister now is in the church, and they put two and two together, uh, and they weren't sharing anything because they were uh, what is the family gonna say? What is the family gonna say? They hadn't put two do do together of who, what, uh, and where. Uh, and then he brings his sister, and she's like, Hey, I know you. I know you, yeah. And it was like the guy that was saying, No, you cannot go there, or you're gonna be out on the street, is now the one bringing her to church. That's a remarkable story. That the Lord is good. Yeah. Um, now the young man was having struggles in his family, uh, in his couple. She came, she got saved in the church, baptized him, her. Uh, they've had uh kids now. The daughters are growing up in church. I was the first one to hold them in my arms uh in the hospital, uh, outside of mom and dad, but I was the first one to hold them uh uh uh in the hospital. Uh they've run up in church, the closest uh friends in the church to our kids. Uh they have been a vital family, uh, just an extreme blessing of how God can put things together. And just because we were out faithful one Saturday morning going, well, we're probably not gonna see anything from this, but we're gonna do it. And God saved a whole family.

Mark 47:28

And how neat to see that they're still involved in the church. And yeah, yeah, it's not, it was it was um genuine fruit, right? It was the real deal. Uh that's that's really yes, what a blessing.

Dave 47:40

And it's not not uh um this um ephemeral uh fruit that's there and go on the next day, exactly like the sower, uh the parable of the sower and the seed though, right? Um that this has been over a 14 year span and they're still in church. That's awesome.

Mark 47:56

Um their entire family's trajectory was changed because of your willingness to go to France and God using your family. And really in that moment, it didn't seem like a big deal, right? I mean, you're just out passing out tracts, and yeah. So it's just a reminder that even the little things that we do can have eternal significance and impact uh for the gospel. Now

Buying A Church Building Without A Bank

Mark 48:23

there was another story you shared about your church. Um, and you know, I think about churches as a pastor, there are these milestones that we come up to. And, you know, one of the big deals for a church, I would, I would believe, would be the opportunity to purchase their own property, right? And you talked about that as being something that, you know, you looked at at your at your small group of believers that are gathering together thinking there's absolutely no way that this group of people are ever going to be able to purchase a building. And uh, can you tell us about that story? Like how, you know, what was your church facing financially? Where about what size were you at? And then how did the whole story unravel with the the you know the gift or the group that stepped in to help and all those details?

Dave 49:11

Sure. So um here in France uh to uh own property as a church is quite difficult. Um is uh quite uh a feat to overcome. But if the Lord has provided for that and opened the door, he will put everything in place. But um we were about 30 or 40 people at our church on a regular Sunday uh at that point. And um the the church had been able to put aside money uh over time, paid for its bills. Um let me back up a little bit. One thing that's very, very important for me is that uh this church is not living off of American money. Uh it's got to be autonomous. And it has to be autonomous from the very get-go. Um uh meaning that, okay, so my support is coming from the states, uh, my my my salary, my income, whatever. But the church has be able has to be able to function on its own. Otherwise, it gets hooked onto and dependent on this life support coming from overseas. And that is not healthy at all. And so we've always wanted to run the church and have run the church where the church has got to pay the bills. So it has always paid the electricity, always paid uh the insurance, always paid for the rental, uh, the rent, always paid for everything. But when we were doing that, we were also able to put money aside and save money. And um we were able to uh finally have enough to where, okay, we have something, uh, but what can we do? It's not enough to purchase anything. But then the owner, the landlord of the building that we were in, that we were renting from him, wanted to sell. He didn't want to keep the building anymore. He was tired of it. It wasn't, he wasn't, I he was covering his uh expenses, but it was just one extra thing. He didn't want to have to deal with it. So he approached uh me and said, Okay, I want to sell. Are you interested in buying? And I looked at uh the church accounts and going, well, this is what I can pay for your building. And he came back and said, Hmm, I need double that. Oh wow. And I said, Well, there's just no possibility. We don't have the means. Uh I went to uh the bank, uh uh, our church bank, and I asked them, hey, what are the possibilities of getting uh a loan to purchase the building? And they asked, Who are you? Oh, your church. So you live off of gifts, right? There is no fixed income, there is no sure income coming in. No, we live off of tithes and offerings. That's all they're like, nope. Uh we will never lend you any money. Okay. And I shared uh this need with uh others, uh other pastors and missionary friends. And um the missionary family uh that we first came with, they had moved on years uh before. Uh and um he heard about it and he shared the need in his church where he was now, about six hours up the road north of us. That church had just received um a leg um money uh from a death of a lady in the family. Um I don't know what you call that in English, uh, but anyway, a lump sum uh like from an inheritance. Oh, inheritance. Okay, okay. Yeah, an estate. Uh she had no inheritors, uh uh, and so uh she had gifted all the money to the church, saying it has to be used to buy property. Really? For churches. And uh he shared the need. He says, I know Dave, I know the church uh because he was there, he was with us uh uh at the start of the church. Uh uh and he said they're good people, and they loaned us the rest of the money uh that we needed to purchase the building. Awesome. So when we went and uh signed the papers, we paid uh cash for the church building. Um now in legal terms, it was ours, uh, but there was a moral contract between the two churches. We will pay you back. Uh and so we started out, we said this is the amount that we're gonna pay back, but the Lord was good. The church started growing a little bit, and we were able to um pay everything off in seven years uh instead of the uh normal amount. So we reduced it almost by a third, a little bit, uh almost a third of the time that we had allotted 10 years uh for uh reimbursing the the loan that they gave us. That's awesome. So the Lord was really, really good. And so just to explain the situation, why property is so important. Three churches that I know of here in France that started by missionaries this year have closed because the missionary has left, and because the church didn't have property. Right. And the uh landlords raised the rent or didn't want them in there anymore, pushed them out, and they had nowhere to go. And so they started meeting in the home that's not very conducive to growth, not in our society, not in our cultural context. And slowly but surely over the years, they've died out and they're gone. So uh owning a building, uh, a permanent place for the church is so important.

Mark 54:53

Yeah. You know, and when I think about that, it's really I know that you know the the bigger story isn't really about the building, it's really about the work that God is doing. Even in your situation, you know, the miracle, uh, I believe a miracle is the right word to use that God provided in a miraculous way uh for your church to buy that. But you know, the greater work really is the building just becomes a tool, right? Uh it's just a part of what God is using uh to accomplish his work there. And, you know, like you said, obviously the church is growing. There's a sense of ownership and uh all of those things. And I I I really appreciate that you as a missionary have expressed in this conversation the responsibility of a missionary or of, I believe, right missions thinking uh to not create uh uh a group of people across the world, across the ocean, around the world that are dependent upon a group of American Americans sp spending money, uh, you know, and I say spending money sending money uh to a missionary because the reality is that missionary is his his family, him and his family's time is limited, right? Uh but you know, obviously the goal would be that we're planning churches, you know, they don't need Americans, um, they need Jesus. And so at the end of the day, you know, helping them understand that I think is really valuable. And um it's one of the things I don't I try not to get, you know, obviously as a pastor when missionaries come in, you know, we do our best to vet them and those kinds of things. And sometimes these cut topics of finances can be kind of um they're awkward. Yeah, they are. Yes. And the reality is, but it always encourages my heart when I hear of missionaries who are understanding and you know, and I totally understand maybe at the very get-go, there is definitely some injection of, you know, their their meeting in their home or their, you know, I get that. But then for that to be a long-term process, it it's it's honestly it's detrimental to the work as a whole. And even you shared testimony of knowing of churches that this year have had to close because the money was no longer there, it wasn't available because the missionaries left, and so now they're in a place where their church can't survive. And we want to be really careful that as we send out missionaries, that we don't we're not making little American churches around the world. Um, no, we're we're we're gathering God's people from all nations, tribes, and tongues, and helping them uh to, you know, I know that your prayer and your desire is that when Dave Price is gone, that this church uh there continues to thrive. Right. And in fact, maybe does it even better without for sure. Well, you know, that's the reality. I mean, like sometimes I think we get too big for our own britches and we think that somehow, you know, how is this gonna work? But what a great reminder to see that God's working uh amongst his people and places all around the world.

What French Believers Teach Americans

Mark 58:07

Um, one of the questions I jotted down that I thought I wanted to ask, we don't have to spend a lot of time here, but is there anything that you've learned from French believers? Like what have French believers taught you?

Dave 58:18

Um, you know what, uh it's uh that's an important question because obviously, coming with uh an American church mentality, sometimes you think church is set to be this way. Right. Uh and church history is this way. Uh and you get to the foreign uh country and you meet uh uh these believers and you start talking with them, having conversations with them, and you're going, wow, these are faithful believers. These are really just unbelievable believers. I mean, just and you're going, wait, that's not what I learned. Wait, that's not what I was taught. And you're going, oh, ah, we need to take off our uh glasses uh that we perceive God's church uh to be, to actually look out and say, okay, this is the wider spectrum of what God's church is. I'm not saying compromise in doctrine and theology. I'm saying, look, God's church is everywhere. Example, just real quick. Um, there's a lady in our church, she's coming from a church background that historically has been here in France since the Middle Ages, even before. And when we think of church history in France, you think Catholic Church, and there's there was Protestants, uh, but between the Catholics and Protestants, there wasn't much of anything left. There was a few Waldensians, but they were gone. Uh, they were killed uh during the uh uh revolution, the religious wars. Uh and actually, no, um, not at all. The French church, though small, very, very small, very much hidden, has always been here and has always been aligned. And I was visiting an area uh in northwest uh Italy, right across the border uh with France, um and they had an inscription on one of these old uh Middle Ages church, uh, and it said uh in Italian but equivalent in English, the light shines brightest in the darkness. And I was over there visiting this area in this church, and it's the same church that is also in uh France, also that the relationship between these two uh churches, it's the same church. Uh and you're going, oh wow, yeah, small, a single candle shining in a world will light up a large room. And so it's what I learned from this lady that traditionally, she's coming from that church culture background, and looking at church history and seeing them is that perseverance, we will stay faithful no matter the cost, we will persevere no matter how much it demands of us. We will continue on because we've been here and this is the truth, and we need to stay faithful and sharing that truth.

Mark 1:01:31

Yeah, I think um there's gonna be a lot of Americans that are gonna be surprised when they get to heaven and they find out like, you know, how vastly diverse and wide. Um, I think, you know, we tend to have, and I'm not I'm not belittling it at all. Uh, we tend to have our camps and our beliefs and our uh, you know, our rallying cries or whatever you want to call it. Uh, but then when you start looking at the bigger picture of the work of God around the world, you begin to realize that some of these issues that we've made issues in the American church, just they really don't hold a candle uh to what no to what God's people have been doing in places that we don't even know about. And that's one of the reasons that I wanted to do this podcast is I want people to know that they're godly people and God's doing a work in places that we're not even aware of. Um and just, you know, I it's just it's gonna be remarkable. I don't know what heaven's gonna be like, but hopefully there'll be opportunity for us to share stories of what God has done uh in our corners of the world and what what a neat uh you know family union that will be uh to hear some of those things.

How Missions Changes A Timid Person

Mark 1:02:40

Yeah. Um how how would you say, Dave, then that you believe that missions are, and I know this is a hard question because it's like it's kind of what you've known from birth. Um but how has missions changed you as an individual? Like, you know, I and I didn't even bring this up, and maybe even I don't know if this would even be part of the conversation, but I know that you've even had opportunity in more recent years to be involved in seminary training and those things. And like, you know, how is all of those parts woven together? How has it changed you as a person?

Dave 1:03:15

Um I'll go back to the very start of our conversation where I told you by nature, my my I'm very timid, I'm very reserved. So, how has the missions changed me? Um, it hasn't changed my nature completely, uh, but it has taught me to uh surpass who I am and not look at me, but look at what God wants to do, and not accept the limitations that maybe others place on you, that you place on yourself, or that the world places on yourself, and say, God, if you've called me to do this, you will equip me and enable me to do that. And so one thing that has changed in me, I believe, is and how missions has changed me, is that not that I am the one going out jumping and saying, by faith we're gonna conquer this. No, it's more of a timid reservation, but saying, Lord, if you're calling me, make sure you're calling me, make it clear. Uh, and then we're gonna do it, even though it doesn't make sense, humanly speaking, because if God has called me to do it, he will do it. Not me, but him. And I depend completely on that because otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Mark 1:04:38

Well, Luke in his gospel says with God, all things are possible. Are possible. Yeah. And that's really a remarkable reminder to us that what and I think again, I think I think of the Apostle Paul where he talks about how it's in our weakness that God's strength is seen, right? It's gonna be in those places where um your church will never own a building, and then God provides miraculously. Uh, you know, those things become testimonies of God's faithfulness and the reality that he is able to do far exceeding abundantly more than we could even ask or think. Right.

Dave 1:05:16

Um you'll be living with uh that missionary family for several months before you ever find anyone willing to rent to you because you're an American missionary. It will take you a while to find a vehicle. It will take you a while, and you'll never be able to lead someone to the Lord the very same day that you meet them when you're out soul winning. You'll never see your church grow past 15 to 20 people because that's the average size of a church here in France, a biblical church. Um, you'll never in that small town be able to do that. You'll Dave, you'll never preach you're too shy. Dave, you'll never go overseas and serve. No, no. Don't listen to none of that. What is God calling you to do?

Mark 1:05:59

And

Dave 1:06:00

Go for it. Yeah.

Mark 1:06:01

Faithful is he that calleth you who also will do it. Yeah. And what a great reminder. And of course, I think, you know, um, there's so much more, obviously, this story, but that we don't have time to unpack. But there's, you know, it's also the the willingness to be used of God. Um, and I'm sure that the Lord has taught you countless lessons, as he has all of us, and our weaknesses and in our difficulties, uh, that we can trust him. But what a great testimony that God has used you and your family uh there in a place that's pretty, I shouldn't say pretty, a place that's very resistant to the gospel, uh, to be a faithful light uh all these years. Uh if you had the opportunity, if we were sitting down for a cup of coffee with a young man, a young man or a young woman who was considering missions, uh, God's call, what would you tell that person? Start now.

Dave 1:06:56

Don't wait till you get to the mission field. If you're not involved in your local missions, uh you're serving in your church there now, you won't last on the mission field, and you won't do it on the mission field. You what you are doing now is what you will probably be doing 20 years down the road, honestly. Uh and so human nature says that we don't change, and if we do change, it takes a very long time for us to change. This is very true. And so if you're not involved in the ministry now, you probably will not make it and not be much involved uh if you feel like the Lord is calling you out sure.

Mark 1:07:39

And apart from God's grace, of course, thankfully, we can repent of those things, we can confess those failures and grow. But you're exactly right. I mean, there's definitely a a propensity to think that somehow um, you know, we're gonna get on an airplane and go across the ocean and all of a sudden become this the greatest soul winners in the world. That's just not the case. No. If you could if you could if there was an ask or question or or or or there is something you could bear your heart and soul to American churches concerning missions, what would it be?

Dave 1:08:19

Probably

What Churches Should Do For Missions

Dave 1:08:21

a couple things, two or three things. I think probably one of the greatest things that a church can do for their missionaries and missions in general is actually spend real time in prayer. I think that's probably the most important thing I I would say is needed.

Mark 1:08:39

Can you define for me when you said real time? I I I think I know what you're saying, but I want our listeners to know like, can you paint that picture for me?

Dave 1:08:48

Like what we're not just saying God bless the missionaries. Right, yeah. I I and I'm saying even more than just God bless our missionaries and spending five minutes praying for them after reading the prayer letter. Take time to get to know your missionary. Now, a missionary can't spend all the time in the world getting to know all the churches that supports him, or he wouldn't be doing anything else other than that. Right. But through the prayer letters uh and through the contacts and the emails, uh the short text messages that he can respond to, try to learn as much about that missionary and as in the mission field as specifically possible, and pray specifically about the needs in the ministry that he has. Um yeah, prayer. I think we've lost sight of maybe, maybe not us specifically, but in general, I think the church has lost its power because it's lost sight of the usefulness of prayer. Uh praying. I and I'm not talking about down on your knees on the edge of your bed and uh praying. Uh, I'm talking about at the stoplight. A spirit of prayer. Waiting for it. The spirit of prayer where you're just sitting there. Okay, I got a minute before the stoplight turns green. And what am I doing? Either I'm meditating on the devotions, the uh things I've read this morning, I'm praying about this or that, and the Lord brings to mind that missionary that I read his letter, or that I saw the video, and with my eyes wide open, I'm praying for him. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean by the spirit of prayer, like you just mentioned, or true prayer. That that relationship, that walk, uh, that constant open communication between God and uh us and being able to share and intercede uh for the Lord, uh, with the Lord for that missionary wherever he is.

Mark 1:10:46

Um I kind of cut you off, and I want to, you said you had a cut two or three things, and so I want to give you time to uh it respond to those, but uh, there are two things that you mentioned that I just think are worthwhile repeating. First off, you talked about text messages and snippets. Um with that with technology and social media, the landscape of communicating with missionaries is totally different uh you know, now than what it used to be.

Dave 1:11:13

With that being said, when I grew up, it was a letter that came in the mailbox and then we had to write, and it was two months later when he got the letter.

Mark 1:11:19

Exactly, exactly. So with that being said, um I I want to encourage that listeners to connect with their missionaries uh in a in a way they can communicate with them quickly, you know, email, text message, uh, social media. And the other thing that I think I found really powerful is to watch people um not feel like they have to be, and I I think you understand when I say this, they don't have to be the best friend or the friend of every missionary. But if there's a missionary family that comes in and you just naturally gravitate towards them, let that be the one that God has placed on your heart. And I'm not saying forget all the rest of them, but you know what I'm saying is uh don't feel like your job for that one, don't feel like your job is you have to pray for all you know 50 missionaries your church supports or whatever. Uh, but if there's just that one, trust that God can impress on other people as well, uh, that same relationship. Uh, but to develop that with their missionary families, I think is super, super important. So, what what are a couple other things that you would or something else you would mention?

Dave 1:12:23

So prayer. Um and the same thing you expect your missionaries to do, be doing yourself. So don't be a hypocrite. Yeah, but I that's what you're saying. I wouldn't say it that way.

Mark 1:12:38

What I'm saying, don't expect them to do something for God that you're not also saying, hey, God's called me to do this too.

Dave 1:12:44

Exactly. Because uh I'm not doing anything different than what I should be doing in the States. Exactly. Um, the church is the church wherever you are, and how we reach people is the same way, whether it's in Africa, in Europe, in South America, in Asia, in Oceania, uh wherever you are, it is the same way we reach them with the one true message. So uh whatever you expect me to be doing, be doing yourself. Because um trust me, as missionaries, we are dependent on the churches back in the states. Um uh if the American churches fell and quit supporting missionaries, a large majority of the biblical churches here in Europe would lose out and uh they would be uh Olympics. They would suffer. They would make it. They would suffer, but they would suffer tremendously. So um, as you accomplish the ministry there, you're actually impacting missions overseas. I think sometimes we forget that.

Mark 1:13:51

Yeah. I mean, you know, obviously, and I don't I'm not trying to belittle it, but you know, writing a check or putting money in an offering plate sometimes doesn't feel very spiritual. Right. And the reality is, but the I think the spiritual part is that I'm saying to God, God, what you've entrusted with me, I'm entrusting back to you to use for ministry. Um, you know, in places that I'm not even aware of, you know, to to pay for a track, to put in a lady's mailbox who, you know, responds to the gospel, you know, and a family that's that's been their lives have been changed, and they're now an integral part of a church ministry uh in a place that I'll never visit. I'll never probably ever see them. Uh, but one day in heaven we will hear all of these testimonies and stories.

Dave 1:14:40

Yeah, and uh and the fruit that you uh we have in our ministry is credited in my my understanding and my viewpoint of things, is credited to the account of those who have enabled us to go also. Uh and so uh what God has accomplished here is also uh fruit for all uh the uh American churches.

Mark 1:15:03

Yeah. Um

God’s Kingdom Is Bigger Than We Think

Mark 1:15:05

we're pretty much out of time, but I do have one question that I hope will be uh a question that we will ask every person that comes on this podcast, and it's this um from where you stand today, what have you learned about God's kingdom that you could have never learned if you had stayed at home?

Dave 1:15:29

God's kingdom is greater, larger than I would have ever imagined. God's kingdom, his church is a wonderful family, also that no matter where I found myself in the world, that fellowship, that communion, that oneness, um, that love uh that you develop uh and have almost instantaneously sometimes with other believers, whether it is in the states, uh going up to Canada and teaching there recently, in Africa, in Europe, in different European countries, it is just mind-blowing to see how God is working and accomplishing what he has set out to build his church, uh to build the body of Christ, and that when you get there, that fellowship that you have, and that oneness that you have, and the desire also that you I find within all of these different people groups, these different cultures, of having one objective, predominantly one uh uh objective is to reach the next person. To have received, now I want to give out. That is what's generally characterized what I've seen of the kingdom of God uh and his church and his body, and that's what I've learned. And in fact, it it reminds me, Dave, just you can't be quiet, you can't stay silent. Whatever you've received was entrusted to you, not for you to keep, uh, but to pass on and to continue reaching out. That was Paul's instruction in Timothy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Lord's really, really good. Um the the church is a thriving, living, beautiful organism that we often find and hear and think that it's suffering. And then in some ways it's true, but it is vibrant almost at the same time when you're looking in the right places, right? It is uh living uh uh in a way that oftentimes we don't grasp and moving forward in ways that we don't see because we're not looking in the right place.

Mark 1:17:59

Yeah, and even in places where the church, I mean, I say this, I I'm I'm not living in constant threat of you know being imprisoned or death or anything like that, but it's remarkable that even in places where the church is struggling, humanly speaking, and there's these pressures against it, the beauty of the faith of the beauty of the gospel and the faith that it produces is people who are just committed to the cause of Christ, who say, you know what, this is more important than life itself. And that I think is what God uses to really I mean, I I'll just kind of I think I'll wrap with this because I think this makes the most sense. But even when a missionary says to God, God, I'll go, God, I grew up in France and that is the last place that I want to be, right? There is a commitment to say to God, but God, if this is where you're calling me, if if going to France means dying to Dave, then I'm willing to die so that Christ can be magnified. Because for me to live is Christ and to die is gain. And so the reality is that God is using his people, his church, uh missionaries, uh, national believers. It's just it's a great reminder to us that God's kingdom is thriving. Um and and we're promised in scripture that you know that upon this rock will I build my church and nothing shall prevail against it. Like it's you know, it's just a good reminder for us to be encouraged that this work that we're doing is not temporal, it has an eternal purpose. And um, I am super excited to hear what God's been doing in France. Uh, maybe, you know, this might be something that in a year or two we should revisit again and just say, hey, what's happened? You know, like what's going on? Um, I definitely believe that uh it will the story will always be uh God has been faithful. Um even in this little place where you know the it feels like like you said earlier, a single candle in a dark place provides a lot of light. And um we know that spiritually speaking, Europe is very, very dark. But what a great picture you've painted for us. That even like in these little places where David, God will never use you, He'll never you you know that you're gonna go to France, you're gonna spend your whole life in France, and you'll have nothing really to show for it. Uh how untrue that is, right? Because God is faithful.

Dave 1:20:38

The lie that uh the world and Satan tries to sell you so untrue. Yeah, God is working in a mighty way.

Mark 1:20:45

What a great reminder. I thank you so much for joining me today. I've really enjoyed this conversation, and uh, I hope that it becomes uh just a good help and reminder uh to the folks that listen to it. And um, thanks for taking time to sit down and chat about some of the things. Yeah, it's been good. It's been good for sure. It's been good. Yeah, yeah. It's been good to catch up, too. Definitely for sure. Good to see you.

Final Encouragement And Ways To Help

Mark 1:21:14

What a great privilege it was to be able to sit down with Dave and talk to him about his ministry there in France and hear his story. I hope that you were as encouraged as I was by listening to how God has been faithfully building his church uh through their ministry. And uh certainly hopefully you will continue to be in prayer for both Dave and Melissa and their family as they're serving there in southern France. If you want to learn more about Dave's ministry, you'll find uh links in today's show notes, including his ministry website, as well as his French language teaching ministry. Be sure to check those out and continue praying for the work that God is doing through them. And if today's conversation encouraged you, would you do us a favor? Share this episode with a friend, your pastor, or someone in your church who has a heart for missions. Your recommendation is one of the best ways to help these stories reach more people. And while you're there, we'd love for you to subscribe to Kingdom Without Borders on your favorite podcast platform so that you never miss an episode. And if your podcast app allows it, would you leave us a five-star rating and a short review? It helps others discover these conversations as well. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, remember God's kingdom knows no borders, and he is still at work among the nations.